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SETIcon

ejk

Critical Thinker
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
375
I got an e-mail notice about a conference planned by the SETI Institute for August:

http://www.seticon.com/

Anyone here thinking of going? I'm ridiculously tempted, but that's probably just because it's deepest, darkest winter and I'm bored and cold and the idea of August alone is enough to be appealing.
 
Wow, just looked at the website and the convention looks awesome. Aug. 13 - 15, I am there!!!
 
SETIcon.

Best named event ever.

I take it you mean to imply the entire endeavor is a waste of time? Not sure why you'd bother with this thread, but I'm curious why. I certainly think the meeting looks like it will be extraordinarily interesting.
 
I take it you mean to imply the entire endeavor is a waste of time? Not sure why you'd bother with this thread, but I'm curious why. I certainly think the meeting looks like it will be extraordinarily interesting.

Not just a waste of time, but a complete con.

I've started threads on the subject and having seen the name of the thread and event on the front page of the forum, it was just too good to miss.

Hey, I'm sure it'll be great fun, but it's not really a "skeptical" event in my eyes - more like a church fete.
 
Not just a waste of time, but a complete con.
If you think it is a waste of time, then don't go.

But: What aspects of it do you think are fraudulent?

Of course, not everything SETI does is considered real "science", but then again, they don't claim otherwise. SETI has, in fact, been quite respectful to science, you know. That's why astronomers are, generally, not offended by their goings-ons. (It's not like the I.D. movement which actively seeks to undermine science.)

Hey, I'm sure it'll be great fun, but it's not really a "skeptical" event in my eyes - more like a church fete.
It is a science-enthusiast event, specifically targeting astronomy lovers.

Not all science-related events need to be "skeptical", you know.

And, if it's really "more like a church fete", someone should probably warn Phil Plait, Jill Tarter, and Rusty Schweickart, etc.!! Otherwise they might be converted into science enthusiasts, too!! :jaw-dropp :jaw-dropp
 
If you think it is a waste of time, then don't go.

No fear on that score.

If they were holding it next door and paying me to go, I wouldn't go.

But: What aspects of it do you think are fraudulent?

Did I say fraudulent?

..

checks posts....

no.

It is a con, though.

I'll just go with a couple of reasons why I feel that way:

1

2

Take a look @ SETI on a cost/benefit analysis and see how you get on.

I find it uniquely amusing the lengths that a bunch of almost entirely otherwise rational people will go to once you are able to link aliens & science, no matter how tenuously.

Of course, not everything SETI does is considered real "science", but then again, they don't claim otherwise. SETI has, in fact, been quite respectful to science, you know. That's why astronomers are, generally, not offended by their goings-ons. (It's not like the I.D. movement which actively seeks to undermine science.)

No, I don't think it's offensive. Ironically amusing and a waste of money and energy is how I'd put it.

It is a science-enthusiast event, specifically targeting astronomy lovers.

Not all science-related events need to be "skeptical", you know.

Quite right.

On the other hand, this forum section is entitled:

The Amaz!ng Meeting! and other Skeptical Events

And, if it's really "more like a church fete", someone should probably warn Phil Plait, Jill Tarter, and Rusty Schweickart, etc.!! Otherwise they might be converted into science enthusiasts, too!! :jaw-dropp :jaw-dropp

Do you know what a church fete is?

I've never heard of anyone trying to convert or being converted during a church fete, which is just a big, fundraising party with sales, games and usually decent piss-up at the end of it. Nobody preaches.
 
Did I say fraudulent?
Confidence tricks are a form of fraud. Calling something a "con" is, at its heart, calling it a fraud. (Unless "con" is short for "convention".) But, that's merely semantics, I guess.

Take a look @ SETI on a cost/benefit analysis and see how you get on.
I take it you're not a fan of SETI.

Well, that's fine.

I'm not, exactly, a huge supporter of them, either. I would only go to this convention because it happens to look like a cool convention, with a decent number of cool guests (and not just the Star Trek ones).

If I don't end up going, it will probably be because too many other conventions had even better lists of guests or other more attractive factors.

I find it uniquely amusing the lengths that a bunch of almost entirely otherwise rational people will go to once you are able to link aliens & science, no matter how tenuously.
That "tenuous" aspect is the most genuinely scientific way to go about doing it, though; as far as we know at the moment. And, they do manage to do some productive science, between their alien-searching, at least.

I think we have bigger fish to fry, than to pick on SETI.

And, that is still no argument that the SETIcon event, itself, is just a confidence trick.

The Amaz!ng Meeting! and other Skeptical Events
I think the title of this sub-forum can be interpreted to mean "The Amaz!ng Meeting! and other Events of Interest to Skeptics", which includes science and astronomy conventions, and such. And, even Sci-Fi conventions such as I-Con and Dragon*Con.

Besides, with Phil Plait there, maybe part of it will be a true skeptical event!

Do you know what a church fete is?
Why use the word "church" in that slur? Do you assume Phil Plait, Jill Tarter, and Rusty Schweickart consider SETI their religion?
 
And, that is still no argument that the SETIcon event, itself, is just a confidence trick.

Again, that's not comething I said.

I just liked the SETI and con next to each other as it sums up my thoughts on SETI. The conference is just a conference, although they probably see it as part of their sales pitch.

Besides, with Phil Plait there, maybe part of it will be a true skeptical event!

Has he renounced his views on NOMA?

Why use the word "church" in that slur? Do you assume Phil Plait, Jill Tarter, and Rusty Schweickart consider SETI their religion?

No idea - I don't know any of them.

On the other hand, since not only church members attend church fetes, it's not actually all that valid.
 
Again, that's not comething I said.

I just liked the SETI and con next to each other as it sums up my thoughts on SETI. The conference is just a conference, although they probably see it as part of their sales pitch.
All right, I'll accept that.

But, for the record, when you stated this:
Not just a waste of time, but a complete con.
...it almost sounded like you were talking about the convention being a con.


Has he renounced his views on NOMA?
Does it matter?

He was the president of JREF, you know. I don't think it is likely that James Randi would have chosen a non-skeptic for the job.
 
Actually, she said she thought I had said stuff about NOMA, but then didn't actually link or quote anything I've said about it. So instead of using a direct source, you are relying on someone who didn't reference any source.

So I'll ask again: what views on NOMA of mine are those to which you are referring?

In that case, I'll wait to see what your views are.

I'm quite happy to retract any notion that you'd been quoted - my mistake for not checking.

Fire away.
 
The Atheist said:
In that case, I'll wait to see what your views are.

I'm quite happy to retract any notion that you'd been quoted - my mistake for not checking.

Fire away.

I'm having more and more trouble seeing what this has to do with this thread. You think that Phil has some publicly stated position (pro-NOMA) that doesn't agree with your version of skeptical dogma--so? Even if you're right about what his position is and we all were to agree he was wrong on that point, would that mean that nothin he has to say is worth listening to? Or does anyone who disagree with you get their skeptical credentials yanked?

And whatever you're trying to say, why is the burden on him to come forward and explain his views? You haven't even bothered to articulate clearly what view he allegedly holds that you consider so damning, much less provide any evidence to support your allegation.
 
SETI itself is the skeptical way of knowing whether or not there is life in the universe by trying to find transmissions from other intelligent life forms. Assuming there is no life out there is a unfounded belief. NOMA basically states that religion and science are separate domains and I do not know how they apply here. SETI are not praying for the evidence but they are looking for it. Also the observations they take can be used by other scientist and sometimes I think they can use the rafio telescopes to collect data for SETI and other research also.
I do not how much funding SETI gets but it is probably small compared to say how much we spend to kill each other. Plus their funding goes into hiring students and scientists.
SETI is partly science and partly exploration with our current limited tools to do so. It is extension of the spirit of exploration our species has had since our earliest days of existence. If we did not have this spirit or drive we would be still in a valley in Africa.
 
I'm having more and more trouble seeing what this has to do with this thread.

Not a great deal, but it started as a result of Wowbagger asking if I thought Phil Plait and others treated SETI as a religion.

Because I incorrectly believed his position had been stated, I made a comment.

No doubt if he sees it worth noting his actual views, he will, otherwise, the subject's dead anyway.
 

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