• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

SETI: Science or Pseudoscience?

rwguinn said:
First of, I was hoping maybe AWprime had a newer,faster way of sending signals.
As far as signaling goes, what SETI will pretty much have to find is a deliberate attempt at communicating with unknowns. I read an article recently-don't have a link, but will try to find one--that there is literally a 50-100 year period in civilization (ours, anyway) where we blast the universe with radio waves.
The day of the 50,000 Watt "clear channel" AM radio is pretty much dead, now--and most of those signals stayed within the wave guide that is the ionisphere and Earth's surface.. FM is lower power (no sense blasting out power when line-of-sight is your range limit) and thus limited in detectability.
Even our exploratory probes signals are low-power, and we rely on precise aiming and a big dish to recover them. So, unless we are in exactly the right place and time in a civilization's history, the likelyhood of detection of general broadcast is very, very small.
All SETI can hope for is that some civilization is booming out gigawatts of signals on 11 M wavelength, intent on attracting attention...
Click to expand...

Actually TV and FM radio broadcasts frequently exceed 50k watts. But, that isn't really important.

If other civilizations are going to detect us by our radio leakage rather than a deliberate transmission, RADAR emissions would be likely. They are high enough frequency to readily escape and are much higher power than typical TV or radio transmission. They would look very artificial. And, they have very little modulation, (just a bit of phase modulation typically) which keeps the spectrum nice and narrow, perfect for long range detection.

Even as we move towards less 'communications' leakage, high power radar will continue to shine like a beacon from the Earth for many years to come.
 
Last edited:
I see in my inbox that SETI@Home is after donations to help carry on the search.

Hmm. Should I donate? What would Carl do?
 
Huntsman said:
Hey, if you make enough smoke... ;)
Click to expand...
That’s true.

I'd think the chances are a bit better than that. We can detect radio signals from natural objects millions of light years away. All depends on the signal strength.
Click to expand...
I have a hard time to imagen an alien race devoting so much energy to say: "were are here!!!". It almost sounds like an ad.

Everything we have discovered has pointed to the conclusion that there is no way to send information FTL.
Click to expand...
That is the sad part, but I am hoping something can be done outside our normal space-time.

As to information, just knowing there is another sentient race out there would be a big boost.
Click to expand...
Well it could feed paranoia or crush the self-esteem of people who claim that we are the only intelligent species (not that I mind).
 
AWPrime said:
I have a hard time to imagen an alien race devoting so much energy to say: "were are here!!!". It almost sounds like an ad.
Click to expand...

Where I come from, that's called "Argument from incredulity," and it's recognized as a fallacy.
 
In fact, given the example of omnipresent human advertising, it almost seems likely!

IF ETI even exists (and I'm starting to wonder), advertising may not just be possible, but probable!
 
AWPrime said:
I have a hard time to imagen an alien race devoting so much energy to say: "were are here!!!". It almost sounds like an ad.
Click to expand...

Searching for earth like planets is of scientific interest, as we want to understand how our solar system and life developed(currently people do this/ prepare for it).
Improvement is also of interest, so that actually dead mars or venus rocks can be distinguished from non deadly atmosphere bearing planets(we'll be able to do this soon).
Then the next scientific step would be to boost precision, so that the composition of atmosphere can be detected(maybe we'll do that in 50 years).
Then a industrial revoloution would be detecable on a far away planet.
By the time the first signs are seen, the civilization will likely be fully into checking the radio signals from the sky.
For little energy a focused signal could be sent, that the others are likely to notice.
In that case, just from scientific interest to understand the emergence of life, it would be scientifically very interesting to establish contact to ask how life looks like and developed.

The only reason not to contact us would be fear of war, but if they are ahead of us and didn't find any FTL travel, they will not fear a backward enemy LY away.

Carn
 
Carn said:
Searching for earth like planets is of scientific interest, as we want to understand how our solar system and life developed(currently people do this/ prepare for it). Improvement is also of interest, so that actually dead mars or venus rocks can be distinguished from non deadly atmosphere bearing planets(we'll be able to do this soon).
Then the next scientific step would be to boost precision, so that the composition of atmosphere can be detected(maybe we'll do that in 50 years).
Click to expand...
Very true but not relevant.

Then a industrial revoloution would be detecable on a far away planet.
By the time the first signs are seen, the civilization will likely be fully into checking the radio signals from the sky.
Click to expand...
Then there would be the problem of distinguishing between an active volcano ring and an industrial revolution.

In that case, just from scientific interest to understand the emergence of life, it would be scientifically very interesting to establish contact to ask how life looks like and developed.
Click to expand...
I think it would be more interesting (and reliable) to do it ourselves.

The only reason not to contact us would be fear of war, but if they are ahead of us and didn't find any FTL travel, they will not fear a backward enemy LY away.
Click to expand...
In the case that were more advanced - Let’s hope then for their sake that we don't invent FTL travel. If we look at the history of exploration on earth it should be obvious what will happen.

In the case that they are more advanced - Lets hope for our sakes that they have a 'Prime Directive'.
 
Humans advanced????

We are definitley in a transitional stage from the animal to civilised, but advanced not yet by a long stretch.
 
If you think that it's not scientific to suppose that life exists in the universe then evidently you don't exist so I'm talking to myself. Of course it's science , since it takes a possiblity and sets up an experiment to try to prove or disprove it . This kind of thing has been done with stuff like ESP and has shown that such things don't happen . SETI also does not try to prove something that conflicts with our understanding of the Universe unlike all that new age rubbish , so lets do the experiment . That's scientific.
 
homer said:
If you think that it's not scientific to suppose that life exists in the universe
Click to expand...
Actually I think that there is a high possibility of it, so you don't have to use that 'strawman'.

so I'm talking to myself.
Click to expand...
Thats true.

Of course it's science , since it takes a possiblity and sets up an experiment to try to prove or disprove it .
Click to expand...
The bad thing is that it can't disprove alien life.
 
The similarity between ID and SETI show just how close science and not science are. The only real different is where you draw the line and who drew it for you!

Which one is looking for intelligence patterns in nature?

ID suffers from Galileo-Syndrome,but in reverse.
 
woodguard said:
The similarity between ID and SETI show just how close science and not science are. The only real different is where you draw the line and who drew it for you!

Which one is looking for intelligence patterns in nature?

ID suffers from Galileo-Syndrome,but in reverse.
Click to expand...
Idiot.
 
woodguard said:
The similarity between ID and SETI show just how close science and not science are. The only real different is where you draw the line and who drew it for you!

Which one is looking for intelligence patterns in nature?

ID suffers from Galileo-Syndrome,but in reverse.
Click to expand...

With respect woodguard that statement does seem to have igored a lot of the discussion that preceded it.

If ID researchers were doing science as most of us in this thread use the word, they would be making propositions that were subject to falsification by experiment, they would be searching for the inner workings of nature not just making statements that stuff is too complex so that God must have designed it, they would not be creating theories that made sense only to people who are not versed in the fields the theories are about and more than anything they wouldn't be basing theories on a 2500 year old collection of mythology and mangled history.
 
To the SETI naysayers --

Putting the risk of contamination aside, is it good science to search for ecosystems in sub-glacial Antarctic lakes? We have no evidence that any exist. We know of no life forms that could live in that environment without a base energy source (no sun, no thermal vents). The theory that life could exist there is unfalsifiable. Is searching there a silly endeavor?
 
Angus McPresley said:
To the SETI naysayers --

Putting the risk of contamination aside, is it good science to search for ecosystems in sub-glacial Antarctic lakes? We have no evidence that any exist. We know of no life forms that could live in that environment without a base energy source (no sun, no thermal vents). The theory that life could exist there is unfalsifiable. Is searching there a silly endeavor?
Click to expand...
Well they are lakes, so some powersource is keeping them liquid.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom