Second career ending

[cbish]

Glenn
Sounds like the seven-year itch! I've been teaching chemistry for 17 years and I understand everything. Did you go to the NSTA in St. Louis this weekend? It's the perfect 'pick me up'.

With all due respect, you really haven't been doing this that long. I think you're in a normal phase of teaching. You've passed the "I'm going to save the world stage" and are now into the "reality" stage. Perhaps if you were young and dumber, it would be an easier transition. If you have student and administrative support, you're fine.

Take the summer off, paint the house etc. and don't beat yourself up! Remember, if you reach one kid, you've earned your salary!

 

[blutoski]

I'm going to echo cbish's comment, and remark that there's a 7-10 year period where "the honeymoon's over." Here in BC, the 10-year mark is a common make-or-break point for teachers at the secondary level. Our Skeptics society is full of "second career" ex-teachers who did "ten up, ten down, out."

What you need is something to look forward to, other than "twenty more years of this."

One thing I learned about myself when I was volunteering as a teacher with the intention of applying to Education was that I hated the babysitting aspect of highschool teaching. My decision was to complete different degrees and teach at the postsecondary level instead.

I do enjoy being invited to drop-in to highschools for career days, and guest teaching. I have deliberately established a program that makes this possible, and intend to expand it, modelled somewhat on Mystery Investigators. I think this will be ready in a few years, so the point is that right now, it's "something to look forward to."

 

[SomeGuy]

I just want to jump at the comment of generation 'E', being a generation 'X' member.

I simply think that it's incorrect that kids these days are any worse than they have ever been. According to literature, we've head over 2.000 years of each generation of kids being less respectful than the one before that (going by the oldest known(to me) treatise on the subject by none other than socrates).

I think we are simply incorrectly remembering how bad we were. I am not saying that teaching those kids is easy, I am just saying that you are doing them a disservice by saying that they are worse than our generation was.

It's just that you use a different yard-stick to measure their behaviour with, when you were young, your friends were what you judged youth on, now that you're a teacher you're judging them on the top 10% least well-behaved.

 

[rjh01]

Well said SomeGuy. I would like to see some double blind experiments done on the subject. Otherwise I am told in this forum it is not evidence.

 

[Hindmost]

I just want to jump at the comment of generation 'E', being a generation 'X' member.

I simply think that it's incorrect that kids these days are any worse than they have ever been. According to literature, we've head over 2.000 years of each generation of kids being less respectful than the one before that (going by the oldest known(to me) treatise on the subject by none other than socrates).

I think we are simply incorrectly remembering how bad we were. I am not saying that teaching those kids is easy, I am just saying that you are doing them a disservice by saying that they are worse than our generation was.

It's just that you use a different yard-stick to measure their behaviour with, when you were young, your friends were what you judged youth on, now that you're a teacher you're judging them on the top 10% least well-behaved.

Well said SomeGuy. I would like to see some double blind experiments done on the subject. Otherwise I am told in this forum it is not evidence.

I didn't state, nor mean to imply that the students were bad or worse than previous generations. I have very few discpline issues and students don't seem to much different from when I was in high school in the 70s. However, there are characteristics to certain generations. This one seems to feel entitled...this seems to be due to the self-esteem myth that has been propagated recently in schools. Read the Scientific American article below. It gives an idea of what I am trying to convey...I can answer specific questions after that.

Again, I have many students that don't follow this "mold," but also too many that do.


glenn

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=1&articleID=000CB565-F330-11BE-AD0683414B7F0000

 

[Hindmost]

Glenn
Sounds like the seven-year itch! I've been teaching chemistry for 17 years and I understand everything. Did you go to the NSTA in St. Louis this weekend? It's the perfect 'pick me up'.

With all due respect, you really haven't been doing this that long. I think you're in a normal phase of teaching. You've passed the "I'm going to save the world stage" and are now into the "reality" stage. Perhaps if you were young and dumber, it would be an easier transition. If you have student and administrative support, you're fine.

Take the summer off, paint the house etc. and don't beat yourself up! Remember, if you reach one kid, you've earned your salary!

Too true, I haven't been teaching that long. But going to work has become a bit of a strain instead of being fun. I never really had the "save the world stage" because my wife was a teacher and I knew that was not possible. I have been fortunate to have student and administration support. The major reason I want to leave is the time factor. I am so tired all the time and tend to be falling asleep driving home. Add to that some students that are not willing to do the work and still want decent grades, and I guess I am burned out. (at the same time I know I will miss the place)

Part of the reason I wanted to become a teacher was to show students the benefit of a science education. It worked in reverse...when students found out how difficult an engineering degree could be, more dropped the idea than decided to join the geek ranks. This included student that I knew could do the work. Only one student I have had decided to become an engineer as a result of my classes. The student wanted to work on environmental issues. I informed the student that an environmental engineering degree would be best...not the biology degree previously planned. It worked...and the student is happy...working super hard and doing well.

I never seem to have time to go to any conferences...I have been to TAM the last couple years...they approved that for me which was nice.

glenn

 

[cbish]

Well, without speaking to you personally, I'm going to take your feelings at face value. I understand. I coached baseball for 11 years and the last few years, I was totally burned out. I was more interested in getting the game over with than trying to win. I went three years too long. I felt guilty about leaving the program. Finally, I had had enough and quit. That was 10 years ago and I have not missed a second. In fact, it's a common nightmare of mine that I have to go back. So, I support your decision. Good Luck!
cb

 

[Hindmost]

Well, without speaking to you personally, I'm going to take your feelings at face value. I understand. I coached baseball for 11 years and the last few years, I was totally burned out. I was more interested in getting the game over with than trying to win. I went three years too long. I felt guilty about leaving the program. Finally, I had had enough and quit. That was 10 years ago and I have not missed a second. In fact, it's a common nightmare of mine that I have to go back. So, I support your decision. Good Luck!
cb

The deed is done...told the science dept today...they were all disappointed that I was leaving, but also understood the reasons etc. The group of teachers that I work with are truly great and I will miss them. Thanks for your well wishes.

glenn--still ambivalent.

 

[Hindmost]

I am officially unemployed...as is physics mouse.

glenn

Seven years of stuff condensed into these folders.

 

[Kochanski]

Hhhm, physics mouse is intriguing. Perhaps, a physics mouse book is in order Think you have a book or two in you Glenn?

 

[Complexity]

I gave up teaching computer science at the college level 12 years ago.

I can't imagine going back to teaching except in a very few schools, and I don't think that will happen.

I loved teaching, but gave it up due to both administrators and students.

 

[technoextreme]

Part of the reason I wanted to become a teacher was to show students the benefit of a science education. It worked in reverse...when students found out how difficult an engineering degree could be, more dropped the idea than decided to join the geek ranks.

Reality isn't the best way to peak someone's interest in engineering. I think it's the only field where basically have to continue actively learning after college namely because the technology does change dramatically if you aren't careful.

Icon 26 - March 23 - 25, 2007 - Stony Brook University:

This is slightly off topic but Kochanski are you native to Long Island?

 

[Hindmost]

Hhhm, physics mouse is intriguing. Perhaps, a physics mouse book is in order Think you have a book or two in you Glenn?

Welllllllllll, I would like to say yes, but I really don't think I could write anything coherent enough...However, after talking to Kitty recently, I am going to call myself a writer. It turns out one need not produce anything of substance for significant periods of time.

glenn

 

[Hindmost]

Reality isn't the best way to peak someone's interest in engineering. I think it's the only field where basically have to continue actively learning after college namely because the technology does change dramatically if you aren't careful....

Hmm...don't necessarily believe it is the only field that requires continuous learning...consider how one can be technically astute at age 26 and produce Nobel prize winning research. However, very few people could be top of their field diplomats at age 26. Just something to think about.

glenn

 

[Hindmost]

I gave up teaching computer science at the college level 12 years ago.

I can't imagine going back to teaching except in a very few schools, and I don't think that will happen.

I loved teaching, but gave it up due to both administrators and students.

I do love teaching as well...I am not ruling out teaching as an adjunct in the future. I definitely need time off right now.

glenn

 

[technoextreme]

Hmm...don't necessarily believe it is the only field that requires continuous learning...consider how one can be technically astute at age 26 and produce Nobel prize winning research. However, very few people could be top of their field diplomats at age 26. Just something to think about.

glenn

There is no Nobel Prize in engineering so Im not really worried about that. In fact none of the fields that a person could win a Nobel Prize is really related to engineering besides the fact that it's science. College doesn't even teach you everything you should learn. Here is a resister. Here is a capacitor. Here is an inductor. Here is a diode. They forget to tell you that there are about variations of each and they aren't created equal. Then you get devices that falls under two different fields of engineering like electric motors.

 

[Kochanski]

Welllllllllll, I would like to say yes, but I really don't think I could write anything coherent enough...However, after talking to Kitty recently, I am going to call myself a writer. It turns out one need not produce anything of substance for significant periods of time.

glenn

I bet you could write something really good. Think about what reached the kids in your classes. Think about what was right and wrong with textbooks used in classes. Then see what you come up with

 

[Nancarrow]

Hi Glenn, scuse me for barging in here having only briefly skimmed upthread...

Have you considered giving private tuition? I just ask cos I've started doing it (for maths, not physics, though my degree was in physics), and it seems to be quite enjoyable. Your hourly earning rate would probably be comparable to teaching classes, but you'd just be doing one-to-one sessions, and you could make your own timetable.

What was your first career?

 

[Hindmost]

Hi Glenn, scuse me for barging in here having only briefly skimmed upthread...

Have you considered giving private tuition? I just ask cos I've started doing it (for maths, not physics, though my degree was in physics), and it seems to be quite enjoyable. Your hourly earning rate would probably be comparable to teaching classes, but you'd just be doing one-to-one sessions, and you could make your own timetable.

What was your first career?

First career was as a nuke engineer...used to do startup, but no plants to startup anymore. I have considered private tutoring. However, I prefer a full class. Anytime I have had to tutor students in a one on one situation, I did not enjoy it as with a full class...I really don't know why. I may look into teaching at a junior college either math or physics.

thanks for the interest and suggestion.

glenn

 

[shuize]

Students today are selecting majors based on how much money they think they can make or something they can do easily. Some students just want sports related careers..they think they can make it to ESPN. It could be my perspective, but I feel students are looking for easy majors that might pay off.

If the problem is that too many young people are unrealistic in their expectations about making a living playing professional sports, then I agree. Otherwise, I don't really see the problem. We all have a limited time on this earth so ideally we should spend it doing something we enjoy. But if one does not have that "true calling" feeling, what's wrong with focusing on what pays the best for the least amount of work? How is it better to spend our limited time doing something hard that we don't enjoy?

As to the sense of entitlement problem, I'm confident the real world will beat that out of them soon enough -- as it does to most adults -- so it's not something I spend any time worrying about.