Scientists admit: we were wrong about 'E'

[Jon_in_london]

Armed gangs do not have the power or moral authority of a nation behind them.

And a nation should use its moral authority to deprive such people of their raison d'etre.

 

[DialecticMaterialist]

I think it can when such a thing would serious harm a citizen's health or sanity due to unwanted side effects. Of course this is a matter of degree. But society and myself have generally agreed that drugs like cocain, heroin, ecstasy, and PCP are where we draw the line. Especially when such are given to children.

And I certainly don't agree with the government now distributing the substance, that to me simply seems like something far too easily corrupted and somewhat immoral.

 

[shanek]

An E-tard is slang for someone that has done so much ecstacy, they behave as if they are mentally handicapped. The word is used among the raver crowd (who I communicate with) because you actually get to meet people who use ecstasy there.. Unlike others who sit in their cozy chairs and for whom the "harmful" effects of E are merely an abstraction. Such people have no life. They are always depressed, very slow in thought and never fully fit in with the rest of society again.

Ah. So you're arguing from emotion and not from rationality.

 

[shanek]

Better than armed gangs selling worse poison for profit.

And responsible, private companies are better than armed gangs or government (and what's the difference between the two, really?).

 

[Dancing David]

As an aside, this is only the refutation of one study, the studies showing neuro toxicity for Mdma go back to the eighties. Now if they all used the mislabeled drug? We will know in twenty years, if all the ecstasy users develpe neo parkinson's.

By the way the DT's really are horrible, but alcohol is still legal.

 

[Valmorian]

Ah. So you're arguing from emotion and not from rationality.

This isn't arguing from emotion. It's an anecdote.

I too know people who were heavy E users. Yes, it's an anecdote, but I have also noticed they are often very slow.

I'm not saying that E should be banned, but I think anyone who has been in the club scene and knows people who do/have done Extasy regularly would be amused at the idea that it causes no harm.

 

[Charles Livingston]

"The liberals used the issue to try and get more funding for programs to study and care for these children and the conservatives used the issue to stir feelings of hate and disgust at poor inner city minorities. The issue was also used to support stronger anti-drug laws and to support money for international anti-drug programs, such as those that still operate in South America today." Quote from Malichi's article.

Geez, is there any bias there? Liberals lie about crack babies for the good of the children, while the conservatives just want to promote hate and disgust at poor inner city minorities. I would say that at best the last sentance was the true motivation for the reagan (read conservatives) admin.

 

[hammegk]

I too know people who were heavy E users. Yes, it's an anecdote, but I have also noticed they are often very slow.

Were your anecdotal group perhaps *always* very slow, rather than that being an effect of E use?

 

[DialecticMaterialist]

Ah. So you're arguing from emotion and not from rationality.

Isn't it ironic, don't you think?

 

[DialecticMaterialist]

As an aside, this is only the refutation of one study, the studies showing neuro toxicity for Mdma go back to the eighties. Now if they all used the mislabeled drug? We will know in twenty years, if all the ecstasy users develpe neo parkinson's.

By the way the DT's really are horrible, but alcohol is still legal.

Degree David, degree. It's all about avoiding the fruitless either/or's.


As a side note, yes some of my evidence here is anectdotal (some people seem to have overlooked the studies I presented) however my claims are hardly extraordinary. That does make a slight difference.

 

[shanek]

This isn't arguing from emotion. It's an anecdote.

He related his emotional reaction from his anecdote.

I'm not saying that E should be banned, but I think anyone who has been in the club scene and knows people who do/have done Extasy regularly would be amused at the idea that it causes no harm.

Who's saying it causes no harm? It just doesn't cause the kind of harm they said it did.

Besides, how many of these E burnouts are using other drugs, too?

 

[Leif Roar]

Who's saying it causes no harm? It just doesn't cause the kind of harm they said it did.

That the article had to be withdrawn doesn't tell you this. That only tells you that the conclusions made in the article were not warranted - not that they were wrong. They likely were wrong, but it's not right to say that "Ecstacy doesn't cause as much harm as they thought it did." It's only one study, it's not something that affects the entire body of works.

 

[Jon_in_london]

I'm not saying that E should be banned, but I think anyone who has been in the club scene and knows people who do/have done Extasy regularly would be amused at the idea that it causes no harm.

I have taken it about a half-dozen times, I decided never to take it again after the last time; which was an absolutely splendid trip but I felt like a piece of used toilet paper for an entire week afterwards. I had to go home early from work twice in that week because I felt so bad. Never again.

Also from this thread: http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26629

Another thing that this paper emphasizes is the risks facing the consumers who are far more likely to end up with something other than MDMA than research scientists. This is, IMO, one of the greatest problems with popping pills. You just dont know what you are getting, and I suspect this is actually the cause of most 'ecstacy' deaths. I doubt that its MDMA doing the damage but whatever else might be in the pill. I remeber while I lived in Cape Town that several kids died because the pills they took some rather impure DXM http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/dxm.shtml

In addition, a hell of a lot of pills may contain delights such as PMA http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/pma/pma.shtml

My main reason for advocating the legalisation and hence regulation of the excstacy trade is to get stuff like DXM and PMA (and christ alone knows what else) out of the pills that millions of teenagers across the world consume every friday night.