School shooting Florida

[JPK]

Good afternoon alfaniner

Now it's "the FBI's fault". I bet The PDJT jumps on that like a kid on a trampoline.

Russian bots are already stoking both sides of the gun control issue. Certainly they will try to place doubt on the FBI and the way they handled this.
I'm guessing the FBI acted properly here.

 

[LTC8K6]

I was talking specifically about spree killings at schools. I make no representation that banning any type of rifle would have any significant impact on overall homicide rates.

Sure, but one could conduct a school spree killing even easier with a Glock pistol.

The only reason these nutters use the AR-15 is because it's popular and it's constantly in the media, and it looks like an M-16.

A Glock makes much more sense, with it's 33 round magazines and concealability.

 

[LTC8K6]

Now it's "the FBI's fault". I bet The PDJT jumps on that like a kid on a trampoline.

He probably should, because the FBI bears some fault here.

They made no effort to check out a detailed January tip line report on Cruz.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Would you then argue that political terrorists captured in the course of committing mass murder should be treated as insane, because they "do this kind of thing"?

I dont understand the question ... “treated as unsafe” can mean too many different things

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I was answering this post; http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12184770#post12184770

[unnecessary snark snipped]

Here's the bit you quoted and your reply. Are you suggesting people should research the part of a post you didn't quote or imagine you meant something other than what you wrote?

... This guy didn't build special "high capacity mags" or other mods to make a normally low-powered weapon more lethal; the thing stock off the shelf is mass-murder in a box.

Does anyone here believe that lack of a specific type of rapid fire gun is going to keep a killer like this one away from schools where he can kill with near impunity? I don't; it may inhibit some though

My reply holds.

Your wording, not mine: "is going to keep a killer like this one away from schools."

Perhaps you'd like to reword your reply?

 

[alfaniner]

The PDJT's going to Florida, ostensibly to meet with some involved in the incident. I would bet that he only talks to and (rightfully) praises the first responders, but does not talk directly to any of the parents or families.

I for one would like to see him confronted directly for a change.

 

[William Parcher]

Not quite.

We now know that the FBI was directly and explicitly warned about Cruz on the phone tip line in January, but the tip was not acted on.

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-statement-on-the-shooting-in-parkland-florida

I know that. My point was that the FBI would not have been able to stop this unless they permanently parked themselves on Cruz's doorstep. A quick comment on YouTube would not result in him being incarcerated or having his gun confiscated. They would need to find clear evidence showing that he was really going to do it.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Good afternoon alfaniner
Russian bots are already stoking both sides of the gun control issue. Certainly they will try to place doubt on the FBI and the way they handled this.
I'm guessing the FBI acted properly here.

Or the FBI didn't and the bots are running with that mistake the FBI made.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I know that. My point was that the FBI would not have been able to stop this unless they permanently parked themselves on Cruz's doorstep. A quick comment on YouTube would not result in him being incarcerated or having his gun confiscated. They would need to find clear evidence showing that he was really going to do it.

There's new news, someone more specifically alerted the FBI in Jan, beyond the Youtube complaint.

The shooter news is sorting itself out in between Mueller's new indictment announcement that was just posted.

 

[LTC8K6]

I know that. My point was that the FBI would not have been able to stop this unless they permanently parked themselves on Cruz's doorstep. A quick comment on YouTube would not result in him being incarcerated or having his gun confiscated. They would need to find clear evidence showing that he was really going to do it.

Sure the Youtube post might be dismissed, but I bet they could have tracked Cruz down then if they wanted to, and at least had it on record.

I bet one dollar that if they acted on the phone tip, as they should have, Cruz doesn't take kindly to the FBI at his doorstep asking pointed questions, and he gets arrested or worse.

 

[fuelair]

But what problems? You've described the end point, how does a 19 year old get to the point where he has so many problems he has to solve them all at once at many feet per second?

This man is 19 and has decided that the biggest impact he can make on the world is to end as many lives as possible, solving, as you say, all his problems John Wayne style. My question is why?

What does it say about his view of his prospects for the rest of his life in the land of the free and the home of the brave where anyone can grow up to be president if he thought his best option was to go out in blaze of glory at the age of 19?

Both parents dead and other mental problems may have had a lot to do with it. Systems here seem to be unable to properly deal with that kind and level of situation.

 

[Trebuchet]

This is in my neck of the woods. No victims, may just turn out to be false alarm or shots fired only. Someone taken to the hospital but the fire department says wasn't a gunshot victim.

There was also an arrest in Everett a few days ago of a guy who was apparently planning to shoot up his high school. Happened just before the Florida event, I think.

 

[MikeG]

Both parents dead and other mental problems may have had a lot to do with it. Systems here seem to be unable to properly deal with that kind and level of situation.

They'd manage a hell of a lot easier if people weren't allowed guns below the age at which they're allowed to buy a beer, though, wouldn't you say?

 

[Ranb]

Perhaps you'd like to reword your reply?

Of course not. Killers enter schools with weapons other than guns.

 

[Meadmaker]

Good afternoon alfaniner
Russian bots are already stoking both sides of the gun control issue. Certainly they will try to place doubt on the FBI and the way they handled this.
I'm guessing the FBI acted properly here.

I'm guessing "The FBI" isn't a hive mind that acts all together.

From what I'm reading, low level FBI staff probably treated the calls about Cruz less seriously than they ought to have treated them. That isn't "The FBI".

The investigation will be all about whether the system in place was adequate, whether the personnel are adequately trained, and whether they acted in accordance with training/instruction/policy. Sometimes, people just screw up, and it isn't the fault of the organization they are paid by. Other times, the people who have to make the front line decisions don't have the training or resources to do the job correctly. That will all have to be looked at.

Meanwhile, Russia is finding one more opportunity to sow discord.

 

[MikeG]

Of course not. Killers enter schools with weapons other than guns.

You're about to post up the comparative death totals, aren't you, so that we can compare the carnage of guns and other weapons?

 

[dudalb]

Can you explain "Pure Castilian Blood" ... I googled it but just got a lot of washing soap ads.

Briefly, the original Castillians were Visigoths..Germans who moved into Spain after the collapse of the Roman Empire, took over, and formed the new Aristoracy...It's a long involved story.
Let's just say that Charleton Heston as El Cid in the movie was pretty damn accurate at to how The Cid probably looked.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I'm actually involved in a situation at the moment with a family member which has similarities to where this was on February 13, but even in the UK which has better (though far from perfect) systems for helping people with mental health issues it is difficult. It takes time and professional input to discern between 'blowing off steam' and 'legitimate threat' sufficiently for official action to be taken, it's a significant issue in my life at the moment but I can appreciate why it is so. However, I can't deny that I am pleased that I don't have to worry that this person might their hands on a firearm.

 

[dudalb]

I know that. My point was that the FBI would not have been able to stop this unless they permanently parked themselves on Cruz's doorstep. A quick comment on YouTube would not result in him being incarcerated or having his gun confiscated. They would need to find clear evidence showing that he was really going to do it.

And how many such tips does the FBI get a month? Quite a few, I bet.
And, as you point out, you can't arrest a guy or confiscate his properry until he actually does something illegal ...

 

[dudalb]

An AK-15 is not an assault rifle. An assault rifle has a selector (this is military terminology) that can be set for single shot, burst (depending on design 3 or 5 shots last I heard/read about it) and auto-fire. The weapon he had was single shot only. And, I suspect we are talking about AR-15. AK is usually the Kalishnikov design (AK-47)

I don't think there is any such thing as an AK 15. Probaly a mistake,the individual meant AR 15.