Sawdust-n-glue cubes

Heiwa

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Below is a funny thread about how to model the WTC 1 crush down that Mackay may enjoy:

http://the911forum.freeforums.org/crush-down-models-t145.html

David B. Benson, co-author of the famous BLGB paper that predicts that skyscrapers in USA are bound to crush down due local failures up top as seen at WTC on 9/11 is trying to make a table top model to prove just that.

Benson is having problems but he thinks that sawdust-n-glue cubes can do the job!!

Thus you build a tower of sawdust-n-glue cubes (part A), put it on a table and then drop one sawdust-n-glue cube (part C) on this tower ... and the sawdust-n-glue cubes tower (part A) is crushed (and part C remains intact)! This proves that the WTCs were crushed down.

Voilà! Nobel prize for Benson!

But beware. This sawdust-n-glue cube (part C) may continue through the table, through the floor below and anything else below the floor. What can stop it???????? Maybe JREF members may clarify the matter?
 
Heiwa, how do you scale a building structure? Let's say I have a building that is 10 metres long, 10 metres wide, and 10 metres tall. Now I want to build one that is 40 metres on all sides. What will I do to the drawing of the 10 metre building to turn it into a drawing for the 40 metres building?

Yes, the question is relevant to the topic of this thread.

Hans
 
Heiwa said:
*snip*
But beware. This sawdust-n-glue cube (part C) may continue through the table, through the floor below and anything else below the floor. What can stop it???????? Maybe JREF members may clarify the matter?
Click to expand...
Is the table, the floor and anything below also made of sawdust-n-glue cubes?

Hans
 
Heiwa said:
But beware. This sawdust-n-glue cube (part C) may continue through the table, through the floor below and anything else below the floor. What can stop it???????? Maybe JREF members may clarify the matter?
Click to expand...
It is obvious nothing can stop it. It will continue to fall through the Earth's core and finally end up in China.
 
dtugg said:
How do you think this compares to your sponge and pizza box models?
Click to expand...

Well, my pizza boxes, lemons, sponges, &c, models were just to show that you cannot crush a number of them by dropping a smaller number of them on them. Same applies to WTC 1 - drop a part C of it on the lower part A and only local failures would result, no crush down, &c!
I think it is hilarious that Benson, a scientist like Bazant, and authority on the WTC crush downs now suggests that a sawdust-n-glue cubes model should prove (sic) that he is right, i.e. that a sawdust-n-glue cube can crush-down anything. I wonder where this will end?
 
MRC_Hans said:
Heiwa, how do you scale a building structure? Let's say I have a building that is 10 metres long, 10 metres wide, and 10 metres tall. Now I want to build one that is 40 metres on all sides. What will I do to the drawing of the 10 metre building to turn it into a drawing for the 40 metres building?

Yes, the question is relevant to the topic of this thread.

Hans
Click to expand...

I wonder why it is relevant? Anyway, use the same drawings and multiply distances by 4 to start with. Then, evidently adjust properties and dimensions of local elements to suit the higher loads applied, &c. Maybe you have to fit some extra columns as support? But avoid columns of sawdust-n-glue cubes! Unless you have a superstrong part C Benson cube.
 
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MRC_Hans said:
Is the table, the floor and anything below also made of sawdust-n-glue cubes?

Hans
Click to expand...

I haven't got a clue! Benson talks about a table-top model, so I assume he will put it on a table. Ask Benson! He replies at the link above.
 
Heiwa,

you continually and somewhat thickheadedly fail to understand that physics with respect to strength of materials does not scale well.

An ant can lift something many times its own weight. If I could do that, I'd be Superman.

So if you want a physical model of a building like WTC that was on a scale you could have in the average garage, and have it be analogous in strength, you have to make all of the members not just correspondingly thinner, but MANY TIMES thinner. You would be making the floors out of the thinnest foil ever made and the columns out of hair-fine hollow wires. Not sure how you would fabricate the trusses, you'd likely have to build them layer-by-layer using nanotech fabrication techniques. Likely you'd need to use those techniques for the columns too. The whole thing would be so very delicate that I doubt you could actually complete assembly of it before a gust of wind from closing the door to the room blew it apart.

That is what you would need to do to make a working physical model of WTC on that scale.

This is why we use computer simulations for this sort of exploration.

-Ben
 
Heiwa said:
Below is a funny thread about how to model the WTC 1 crush down that Mackay may enjoy:

http://the911forum.freeforums.org/crush-down-models-t145.html

David B. Benson, co-author of the famous BLGB paper that predicts that skyscrapers in USA are bound to crush down due local failures up top as seen at WTC on 9/11 is trying to make a table top model to prove just that.

Benson is having problems but he thinks that sawdust-n-glue cubes can do the job!!

Thus you build a tower of sawdust-n-glue cubes (part A), put it on a table and then drop one sawdust-n-glue cube (part C) on this tower ... and the sawdust-n-glue cubes tower (part A) is crushed (and part C remains intact)! This proves that the WTCs were crushed down.

Voilà! Nobel prize for Benson!

But beware. This sawdust-n-glue cube (part C) may continue through the table, through the floor below and anything else below the floor. What can stop it???????? Maybe JREF members may clarify the matter?
Click to expand...

Looks to me that you're living in fear of having to pay out the $1M.

Would his model fit the conditions of your challenge?

In fact .. what are the conditions of your challenge? :D
 
BenBurch said:
Heiwa,


This is why we use computer simulations for this sort of exploration.

-Ben
Click to expand...

Yes, we do! Ship collisions' structural steel damages have been computer simulated and compared with reality and compare well. Both ships get damaged. Easy to do the same with WTC 1. I wonder why it has not been done with WTC1? Why do they assume upper part remains intact? And why was the WTC 7 simulation done incorrectly? The whole upper part free falling for 2.25 seconds - no forces acting on it except air resistance - and the structure deforms and fails!! Due to air resistance!

So why is Benson trying to do a sawdust-n-glue cube model????
 
GlennB said:
Looks to me that you're living in fear of having to pay out the $1M.

Would his model fit the conditions of your challenge?

In fact .. what are the conditions of your challenge? :D
Click to expand...

Pls keep to topic.

Re model, if Benson can show that a sawdust-n-glue cube can crush a tower of similar cubes, yes, he fulfills the conditions of the challenge! Somebody suggested that a sushi roll would be able to crush a tower of sushi rolls but never proved it! Maybe he ate the sushi? If he hadn't been hungry, it would have fulfilled the conditions. Reminds me, time for dinner. Nihon ryori suki desu!
 
Latest from Benson:

After thinking about it for a bit, I suggest using slabs rather than spheres. There is but one slab per elevation unit, held up by a single "glass" rod. Both are perfectly rigid. The slab has infinite strength, but the rod shatters and disappears at some load limit.

This is the most severe test of the crush-down equations I can think of.

Can anybody explain what it is all about?
 
Dumb All Over said:
It is obvious nothing can stop it. It will continue to fall through the Earth's core and finally end up in China.
Click to expand...
Actually, no, it will accelerate positively until it reaches the center of the Earth and will then accelerate negatively until it stops at the height above Earth surface that it began at, but in China (or whatever), then it will reverse. This assumes no friction (so we are all dead).
With friction, it will stop a lot sooner ( and we will be alive. Which I personally prefer.):):):)
 
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WTC one was simulated to a sufficient degree to show failure. Denying that is dishonest, Heiwa. And if you DO deny it, why don't you and your truther friends set up a Beowulf cluster, write the simulation, run it, and see what happens. You can get a garage-full of old P-3 machines for a song.

And then release the results and your code and we'll shoot holes in it until all concerns are met.

THEN - and only then - if your simulation shows no failure, you can start talking about why it did not do what NIST and a number of others say it had to.
 
Anders, We need you to model a smoke machine in another thread. Yer a genius, right?. Why doncha stuff some that sawdust and glue up your nose and light it up?

get back to us. ok?
 
BenBurch said:
WTC one was simulated to a sufficient degree to show failure. Denying that is dishonest, Heiwa. And if you DO deny it, why don't you and your truther friends set up a Beowulf cluster, write the simulation, run it, and see what happens. You can get a garage-full of old P-3 machines for a song.

And then release the results and your code and we'll shoot holes in it until all concerns are met.

THEN - and only then - if your simulation shows no failure, you can start talking about why it did not do what NIST and a number of others say it had to.
Click to expand...

Topic is of course Benson's sawdust-n-glue cubes model to simulate WTC crush down. I assume it is an honest attempt. I only conclude it will fail. You see you cannot crush anything with a part of itself. To deny that is ... well, paranormal!
 
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