Rules on Smoking - Too Strict?

[Sabretooth]

There are a couple of rules that are being re-enforced here at my office building. Both of which I think are dumb. I wanted to see if maybe I was being out of line by thinking so:

1). The entrance way to my office has an awning. During the winter months, or when it's raining in the warmer months, the smoker folks tend to congregate under the awning to stay out of the elements. Apparently, there have been some complaints from anonymous non-smokers saying that it's BS that they have to "walk through a cloud of smoke" to enter the building (which is a gross over-exaggeration). So now the smokers must stand 100 feet away from the entranceway and stay away from the awning. Now smokers have no choice but to stand in the rain/snow/wind to enjoy their cancer-stick. This effects me somewhat directly as you'll see in rant #2, but even if it didn't, I think this rule is stupid. There never is "a cloud of smoke" because, even though it's under an awning, it's outside. There is always some level of a breeze to carry the smoke away. And the smokers tend to stay off in the corner away from the doors, so this is just some idiot(s) complaining for the sake of complaining and getting their own way. How can anyone regulate smoking if you're outside. It just drives me crazy.

2). I recently quit smoking, but now I use an e-cig. E-cigs are nothing more than nicotine and water vapor. A group of about 8 of us all got one around the same time and we would enjoy them right at our desks. They don't smell like cigarettes at all...in fact...some of my neighbors in the cube farm love the smell of them because I have flavors like Coffee, French Toast, Maple Syrup, and Spearmint. They really are enjoyable. Well, now, we aren't allowed to do that either. The excuse? It's "unprofessional". I work in a call center. We never see a client...the client never sees us. But somehow, inhaling water vapor is somehow unprofessional. So now I have to go outside if I want to enjoy my e-cig. On top of that, I can't stand under the awning because it "looks" like we're smoking.

My office is obviously privately owned and smoking is most certainly not allowed indoors (and I completely understand that it should be that way)...but seriously, can the building owners really regulate smoking outside as well? It's pretty damn irritating that smokers have to jump through hoops to kill themselves...

 

[zooterkin]

There are a couple of rules that are being re-enforced here at my office building. Both of which I think are dumb. I wanted to see if maybe I was being out of line by thinking so:

1). The entrance way to my office has an awning. During the winter months, or when it's raining in the warmer months, the smoker folks tend to congregate under the awning to stay out of the elements. Apparently, there have been some complaints from anonymous non-smokers saying that it's BS that they have to "walk through a cloud of smoke" to enter the building (which is a gross over-exaggeration). So now the smokers must stand 100 feet away from the entranceway and stay away from the awning. Now smokers have no choice but to stand in the rain/snow/wind to enjoy their cancer-stick. This effects me somewhat directly as you'll see in rant #2, but even if it didn't, I think this rule is stupid. There never is "a cloud of smoke" because, even though it's under an awning, it's outside. There is always some level of a breeze to carry the smoke away. And the smokers tend to stay off in the corner away from the doors, so this is just some idiot(s) complaining for the sake of complaining and getting their own way. How can anyone regulate smoking if you're outside. It just drives me crazy.

In the UK, the limit (by law) is 8 metres from the entrance. 100 feet seems a big over-reaction. However, here shelters are provided.

I would, however, agree with the objection to having to walk through a group of smokers. You may not see a cloud of smoke, but to a non-smoker it is very noticeable by smell.

It also does not give a professional impression to have a group of people standing outside the front of the office, smoking. Even if, as you suggest, you don't get many customers visiting, there must be some visitors, or even passers-by, who will see.

2). I recently quit smoking, but now I use an e-cig. E-cigs are nothing more than nicotine and water vapor. A group of about 8 of us all got one around the same time and we would enjoy them right at our desks. They don't smell like cigarettes at all...in fact...some of my neighbors in the cube farm love the smell of them because I have flavors like Coffee, French Toast, Maple Syrup, and Spearmint. They really are enjoyable. Well, now, we aren't allowed to do that either. The excuse? It's "unprofessional". I work in a call center. We never see a client...the client never sees us. But somehow, inhaling water vapor is somehow unprofessional. So now I have to go outside if I want to enjoy my e-cig. On top of that, I can't stand under the awning because it "looks" like we're smoking.

I've never seen or smelt these, so I can't really comment. I do think anything that smells strongly can be a distraction in the office, whatever it is, but otherwise, I can't see a big objection. Who is complaining if you use them under the awning? Can you explain to them what they are?

My office is obviously privately owned and smoking is most certainly not allowed indoors (and I completely understand that it should be that way)...but seriously, can the building owners really regulate smoking outside as well? It's pretty damn irritating that smokers have to jump through hoops to kill themselves...

If the smoking is on their property, then I'm sure they can regulate it (and may be obliged by law to do so).

 

[DallasDad]

The only objection to e-cigs that I've ever heard actually articulated goes like this: "It looks like smoking, and someone might be fooled."

I suppose we're supposed to take the next leap ourselves, and imaging that the person being fooled is a kid who is thereby encouraged to smoke real cigarettes. This is, at best, ridiculous. I believe the real objection is much simpler: "We've decided that smoking is bad, so anything that looks like it or substitutes for it is also bad. Never mind that it makes smokers more productive, less unhappy, less stinky, and removes all the health concerns about second- or third-hand smoke."

Some airlines and restaurants have specifically started mentioning e-cigs in their no-smoking policies, but I've never seen even a hint of justification for the ban.

 

[roger]

I think you are playing word games re the "cloud of smoke" thing. Everyone knows what that means - it doesn't mean literally a cloud.

Cigarette smoke/odors are sticky. Walk through a group of smokers, and you end up smelling like cigarette smoke for a long time afterwards. A lot of nonsmokers find the smell extremely unpleasant. Imagine that every time you walked through a doorway someone squirted you with pig ****. The odor, not the material, for the sake of not getting too wrapped up about germs or whatever. I think you'd find people pretty selfish and self centered if they couldn't be bothered to move 100 feet to avoid you smelling like pig **** for the next hour or two. This is an analogy, not an equivalency - I'm sure most people would be bothered more by pig **** smell then cigarette smell. But the point remains - you are engaging in a personal activity, others shouldn't have to end up smelling like your activity because you cluster where people have to walk to do their job.

 

[Lanzy]

No these rules are not too strict. In fact lets move them 200' away and make sure they are not on the clock while they are smoking.

 

[KodeBlue]

I work at hospital where smoking is not allowed on the grounds at all- not by staff, patients, visitors, vendors anyone.

 

[I Ratant]

Yes, -off the clock- while out of the office smoking!
Otherwise, they work 50 minutes and get paid for 60 minutes.
7 times a day!
And some distance from the workplace.
The exercise will do them good.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

There are a couple of rules that are being re-enforced here at my office building. Both of which I think are dumb. I wanted to see if maybe I was being out of line by thinking so:

1). The entrance way to my office has an awning. During the winter months, or when it's raining in the warmer months, the smoker folks tend to congregate under the awning to stay out of the elements. Apparently, there have been some complaints from anonymous non-smokers saying that it's BS that they have to "walk through a cloud of smoke" to enter the building (which is a gross over-exaggeration). So now the smokers must stand 100 feet away from the entranceway and stay away from the awning. Now smokers have no choice but to stand in the rain/snow/wind to enjoy their cancer-stick. This effects me somewhat directly as you'll see in rant #2, but even if it didn't, I think this rule is stupid. There never is "a cloud of smoke" because, even though it's under an awning, it's outside. There is always some level of a breeze to carry the smoke away. And the smokers tend to stay off in the corner away from the doors, so this is just some idiot(s) complaining for the sake of complaining and getting their own way. How can anyone regulate smoking if you're outside. It just drives me crazy.

2). I recently quit smoking, but now I use an e-cig. E-cigs are nothing more than nicotine and water vapor. A group of about 8 of us all got one around the same time and we would enjoy them right at our desks. They don't smell like cigarettes at all...in fact...some of my neighbors in the cube farm love the smell of them because I have flavors like Coffee, French Toast, Maple Syrup, and Spearmint. They really are enjoyable. Well, now, we aren't allowed to do that either. The excuse? It's "unprofessional". I work in a call center. We never see a client...the client never sees us. But somehow, inhaling water vapor is somehow unprofessional. So now I have to go outside if I want to enjoy my e-cig. On top of that, I can't stand under the awning because it "looks" like we're smoking.

My office is obviously privately owned and smoking is most certainly not allowed indoors (and I completely understand that it should be that way)...but seriously, can the building owners really regulate smoking outside as well? It's pretty damn irritating that smokers have to jump through hoops to kill themselves...

As far as #1 goes, I agree with making smokers stand 100 feet away. The problem is, not walking though the "cloud of smoke", but instead, whenever you dense pack a bunch of smokers in a combined area, the stench is unbearable, even long after they have left. Not to mention the butts on the ground.

#2: I don't know what an e-cigarette smells like, so I have no comment.

 

[superfreddy]

There are a couple of rules that are being re-enforced here at my office building. Both of which I think are dumb. I wanted to see if maybe I was being out of line by thinking so:

1). The entrance way to my office has an awning. During the winter months, or when it's raining in the warmer months, the smoker folks tend to congregate under the awning to stay out of the elements. Apparently, there have been some complaints from anonymous non-smokers saying that it's BS that they have to "walk through a cloud of smoke" to enter the building (which is a gross over-exaggeration). So now the smokers must stand 100 feet away from the entranceway and stay away from the awning. Now smokers have no choice but to stand in the rain/snow/wind to enjoy their cancer-stick. This effects me somewhat directly as you'll see in rant #2, but even if it didn't, I think this rule is stupid. There never is "a cloud of smoke" because, even though it's under an awning, it's outside. There is always some level of a breeze to carry the smoke away. And the smokers tend to stay off in the corner away from the doors, so this is just some idiot(s) complaining for the sake of complaining and getting their own way. How can anyone regulate smoking if you're outside. It just drives me crazy.

2). I recently quit smoking, but now I use an e-cig. E-cigs are nothing more than nicotine and water vapor. A group of about 8 of us all got one around the same time and we would enjoy them right at our desks. They don't smell like cigarettes at all...in fact...some of my neighbors in the cube farm love the smell of them because I have flavors like Coffee, French Toast, Maple Syrup, and Spearmint. They really are enjoyable. Well, now, we aren't allowed to do that either. The excuse? It's "unprofessional". I work in a call center. We never see a client...the client never sees us. But somehow, inhaling water vapor is somehow unprofessional. So now I have to go outside if I want to enjoy my e-cig. On top of that, I can't stand under the awning because it "looks" like we're smoking.

My office is obviously privately owned and smoking is most certainly not allowed indoors (and I completely understand that it should be that way)...but seriously, can the building owners really regulate smoking outside as well? It's pretty damn irritating that smokers have to jump through hoops to kill themselves...

Not at all. A private company can implement any policy they see fit, as long as they don't violate the law. At my company, you can't smoke while on the property, which includes the parking lot. That's right, you can NOT smoke inside your car if you're on the property.

The way I see it, if you don't like it, quit! (smoking or the job)

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Yes, -off the clock- while out of the office smoking!
Otherwise, they work 50 minutes and get paid for 60 minutes.
7 times a day!
And some distance from the workplace.
The exercise will do them good.

I had this exact argument with a boss many, many years ago. I would sometimes take a 5 minute break 2-3 times a day, and read the paper. When he objected, I asked him how it was any worse then going outside and smoking for the same period of time. And besides, the total of all my "newspaper reading breaks" combined was probably 15-20 minutes a day, when there were people who went outside to smoke for 10 minutes, 8-10 times a day. He had no answer.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

I work at hospital where smoking is not allowed on the grounds at all- not by staff, patients, visitors, vendors anyone.

I work at an elementary school and that's the rule too. However, that's not too surprising. Hospitals, schools - smoking around those places will draw ire. My husband is a software engineer and that's the rule at his company. He was tested for nicotine before he started there.

 

[Sir Robin Goodfellow]

Does an e-cigarette plug into the USB port on your laptop?

 

[Spindrift]

I don't think the rules are too strict. If you want strict they should have this rule: You can smoke all you want, you just can't exhale.

As an ex-smoker, I didn't realize how much smoking really stinks until I stopped. So while I really don't care if someone smokes or not, the smokers in the doorway is really annoying.

 

[Sabretooth]

I would, however, agree with the objection to having to walk through a group of smokers. You may not see a cloud of smoke, but to a non-smoker it is very noticeable by smell.

I think you are playing word games re the "cloud of smoke" thing. Everyone knows what that means - it doesn't mean literally a cloud.

See but here's the thing. I can completely understand this being an issue in the warmer months. However, this shouldn't be an issue during the winter. The smokers only congregate at breaks (1030am, 1230pm, and 3pm). The non-smokers do not come outside during the day when it's cold...they take their breaks inside. The only time non-smokers use the doorway is to come in (at 8am) and leave (at 5pm). The smokers are not there at 8 and 5...so no non-smoker has to even deal with the smokers unless they go out of their way. Also, even if they did, the smokers are away from the door. People do not have to walk within 20 of them if they do come in/out of the door.

Plus, even in the winter, as long as it's not windy, the smokers don't stand under the awning...they go out near the parking lot. Like I said, they are only under the awning at breaks when the elements are crappy...and non-smokers do not come outside to hang out in the cold, crappy days. So what's the big freakin deal?

 

[Checkmite]

It's "unprofessional". I work in a call center. We never see a client...the client never sees us. But somehow, inhaling water vapor is somehow unprofessional.

Can't speak to the rest of it, but I reckon you aren't allowed to eat lunch at your workstation either. And being professional only when non-coworkers can see you misses the point of being professional.

 

[sadhatter]

There are a couple of rules that are being re-enforced here at my office building. Both of which I think are dumb. I wanted to see if maybe I was being out of line by thinking so:

1). The entrance way to my office has an awning. During the winter months, or when it's raining in the warmer months, the smoker folks tend to congregate under the awning to stay out of the elements. Apparently, there have been some complaints from anonymous non-smokers saying that it's BS that they have to "walk through a cloud of smoke" to enter the building (which is a gross over-exaggeration). So now the smokers must stand 100 feet away from the entranceway and stay away from the awning. Now smokers have no choice but to stand in the rain/snow/wind to enjoy their cancer-stick. This effects me somewhat directly as you'll see in rant #2, but even if it didn't, I think this rule is stupid. There never is "a cloud of smoke" because, even though it's under an awning, it's outside. There is always some level of a breeze to carry the smoke away. And the smokers tend to stay off in the corner away from the doors, so this is just some idiot(s) complaining for the sake of complaining and getting their own way. How can anyone regulate smoking if you're outside. It just drives me crazy.

2). I recently quit smoking, but now I use an e-cig. E-cigs are nothing more than nicotine and water vapor. A group of about 8 of us all got one around the same time and we would enjoy them right at our desks. They don't smell like cigarettes at all...in fact...some of my neighbors in the cube farm love the smell of them because I have flavors like Coffee, French Toast, Maple Syrup, and Spearmint. They really are enjoyable. Well, now, we aren't allowed to do that either. The excuse? It's "unprofessional". I work in a call center. We never see a client...the client never sees us. But somehow, inhaling water vapor is somehow unprofessional. So now I have to go outside if I want to enjoy my e-cig. On top of that, I can't stand under the awning because it "looks" like we're smoking.

My office is obviously privately owned and smoking is most certainly not allowed indoors (and I completely understand that it should be that way)...but seriously, can the building owners really regulate smoking outside as well? It's pretty damn irritating that smokers have to jump through hoops to kill themselves...

What bothers me is that there are many other personal habits that have just as many bad effects on other people that are not treated like this. The worst offender i find, is chewing gum.

A smoke nazi will loudly proclaim " look at all the cigarette butts everywhere, that should be reason enough to ban it." while not mentioning that it is literally impossible to go in darn near any busy building without encountering a wad of gum stuck to the floor, a desk, a wall, a urinal etc. How many of us have moved the wrong way in a theater, only to have a hand, or other body part touch someones chewed wad of candy and food particles.

A cigarette butt may look unpleasant and need to be removed, but when is the last time you had to spend 10 minutes scraping one off your shoe? Or had to spend a night re cleaning a pair of pants because some jerk left it on a seat?

A smoke nazi will scream " look at how this effects people who have to pass by, i don't want to smell cigarette smoke. " , while ignoring the cud chewing call center floor ( used to work at a call center as well.). Do gum chewers really think it is pleasant to hear the smacks, pops, cracks, sucks and splorts that come with chewing gum?

A smoke nazi will scream about the unprofessional look of a group of smokers, while completely ignoring that anyone, anywhere looks like they have an iq of about 40 chewing a wad of gum.

A smoke nazi will compare a whiff of smoke outdoors to every foul smell from poop to agent orange. While ignoring the sickly sweet rotting meat smell produced by people who overdo it with the spearmint gum.

But the smoke nazi will look at me and say " well of course these things happen, but it is simply people who are being jerks, not everyone who chews gum will do these things. It would be silly to ask people to chew gum out doors." and the smoke nazi will have no idea of the hypocrisy of the statement.

Should we smoke outside? Kinda, i have no issue with it. Should we have to smoke in the middle of a field with no awning , or walls ( the law around where i am.), hell no. Until every personal habit that is a raging annoyance to those who don't do it is treated this way, it is simple posturing by various agencies to set up laws to hassle the smokers.

 

[Sabretooth]

The only objection to e-cigs that I've ever heard actually articulated goes like this: "It looks like smoking, and someone might be fooled."

I suppose we're supposed to take the next leap ourselves, and imaging that the person being fooled is a kid who is thereby encouraged to smoke real cigarettes. This is, at best, ridiculous. I believe the real objection is much simpler: "We've decided that smoking is bad, so anything that looks like it or substitutes for it is also bad. Never mind that it makes smokers more productive, less unhappy, less stinky, and removes all the health concerns about second- or third-hand smoke."

Some airlines and restaurants have specifically started mentioning e-cigs in their no-smoking policies, but I've never seen even a hint of justification for the ban.

I find this rule at our place especially stupid and hypocratic...mostly because I don't want to go outside when it's 5^o F out there. However, people have scented candles, scented oils, gag inducing perfume, flowers, and burnt microwave popcorn at their desks all freakin day. An e-cig is essentially a low-level vaporizor, with a scent of your choosing...all of which smell absolutely nothing like a cigarette.

I starting bringing in a coffee flavor vapor for my e-cig. I've been secretly smoking my coffee smelling e-cig at my cube for the last week. Exactly zero people have made a comment that my cubicle smells like coffee.

 

[Sabretooth]

Can't speak to the rest of it, but I reckon you aren't allowed to eat lunch at your workstation either. And being professional only when non-coworkers can see you misses the point of being professional.

No, most of us eat lunch at our desks. Taking a quick puff on and e-cig is no different than chewing on a pen or pencil in my opinion...yet they aren't out to ban that.

 

[Sabretooth]

What bothers me is that there are many other personal habits that have just as many bad effects on other people that are not treated like this. The worst offender i find, is chewing gum.

A smoke nazi will loudly proclaim " look at all the cigarette butts everywhere, that should be reason enough to ban it." while not mentioning that it is literally impossible to go in darn near any busy building without encountering a wad of gum stuck to the floor, a desk, a wall, a urinal etc. How many of us have moved the wrong way in a theater, only to have a hand, or other body part touch someones chewed wad of candy and food particles.

A cigarette butt may look unpleasant and need to be removed, but when is the last time you had to spend 10 minutes scraping one off your shoe? Or had to spend a night re cleaning a pair of pants because some jerk left it on a seat?

A smoke nazi will scream " look at how this effects people who have to pass by, i don't want to smell cigarette smoke. " , while ignoring the cud chewing call center floor ( used to work at a call center as well.). Do gum chewers really think it is pleasant to hear the smacks, pops, cracks, sucks and splorts that come with chewing gum?

A smoke nazi will scream about the unprofessional look of a group of smokers, while completely ignoring that anyone, anywhere looks like they have an iq of about 40 chewing a wad of gum.

A smoke nazi will compare a whiff of smoke outdoors to every foul smell from poop to agent orange. While ignoring the sickly sweet rotting meat smell produced by people who overdo it with the spearmint gum.

But the smoke nazi will look at me and say " well of course these things happen, but it is simply people who are being jerks, not everyone who chews gum will do these things. It would be silly to ask people to chew gum out doors." and the smoke nazi will have no idea of the hypocrisy of the statement.

Should we smoke outside? Kinda, i have no issue with it. Should we have to smoke in the middle of a field with no awning , or walls ( the law around where i am.), hell no. Until every personal habit that is a raging annoyance to those who don't do it is treated this way, it is simple posturing by various agencies to set up laws to hassle the smokers.

Eh. Used gum sucks...but I dunno if I wanna try to use that argument against smoking. Used gum isn't exactly a hazard like 2nd hand smoke.

That being said...my gripe has to do with weather vs. location mostly. I don't expect to be allowed to smoke indoors...that I agree is unfair to those around me. However, my non-smoking co-workers do not go outside to take their breaks when the weather is crappy. I don't see the problem with allowing smoking under the awning in the cases of rain, snow, cold and/or high winds. If the weather is at all favorable, then kick the smokers to the parking lot. I see it as a pretty reasonable compromise.

 

[I Ratant]

...

Should we smoke outside? Kinda, i have no issue with it. Should we have to smoke in the middle of a field with no awning , or walls ( the law around where i am.),...

.

Well, yes...as long as the path to the smoking ghetto is uphill both ways!