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Roided Up "Boy" Wins Girls' State Wrestling Championship

Cain

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Cain
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...a3817ac21a5_story.html?utm_term=.c620163393ad

Mack Beggs, the person at the center of this controversy, would prefer to wrestle males, but Texas state law requires participants to square off against those who share the sex listed on their birth certificate.

This boils down to a fairness issue. One of the respectable things about sports, almost everyone agrees, is that fairness matters (with the exception of stupid-ass overtime rules for the Super Bowl).

The solution here seems rather simple: Male transitioning to female? You wrestle dudes. Female transitioning to male? You wrestle dudes. Alternatively, we could just ignore sex/gender and have the best wrestle against each other (but this would destroy female athletics).
 
Clearly you can't have trans-boys competing against girls because that's not fair, and we have already been told that having trans-girls competing against girls in unfair, so clearly to protect the girls from unfairness the only fair thing to do is to ban all transgenders from sports entirely, because no-one cares about fairness to them.
 
Cain said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...a3817ac21a5_story.html?utm_term=.c620163393ad

Mack Beggs, the person at the center of this controversy, would prefer to wrestle males, but Texas state law requires participants to square off against those who share the sex listed on their birth certificate.

This boils down to a fairness issue. One of the respectable things about sports, almost everyone agrees, is that fairness matters (with the exception of stupid-ass overtime rules for the Super Bowl).

The solution here seems rather simple: Male transitioning to female? You wrestle dudes. Female transitioning to male? You wrestle dudes. Alternatively, we could just ignore sex/gender and have the best wrestle against each other (but this would destroy female athletics).
Click to expand...

This is a real problem at the edges, gender is socially determined, I guess you can choose male, female or neither. Sex is biologically determined and to some extent does not change from birth, but is not clearly binary. Persons who are androgen insensitive will be genetically XY (male) but physically female (although have undescended testes, and will be infertile). Mostly they will be female gender. It is recognised that these people tend to be more 'sporty' than the average XX female, for everyday sport does it matter? Clearly it becomes more important for professional sport.

A benign tumour may result in excessive steroid hormone production and masculinisation, should treatment be compulsory? Should the fact that the hormones are naturally but abnormally excessively produced be regarded as the same as if they are taken as performance boosting drugs? Should testosterone administered for gender reassignment be allowed but the same dose taken for performance enhancement result in banning?
 
Planigale said:
A benign tumour may result in excessive steroid hormone production and masculinisation, should treatment be compulsory? Should the fact that the hormones are naturally but abnormally excessively produced be regarded as the same as if they are taken as performance boosting drugs? Should testosterone administered for gender reassignment be allowed but the same dose taken for performance enhancement result in banning?
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This is the only thing that bugs me about this situation. He is the only wrestler in the league, to my knowledge, allowed to compete while taking steroids. All other things being equal, that gives an unfair advantage.

Of course, all other things are not equal - they never are.
 
PhantomWolf said:
Clearly you can't have trans-boys competing against girls because that's not fair, and we have already been told that having trans-girls competing against girls in unfair, so clearly to protect the girls from unfairness the only fair thing to do is to ban all transgenders from sports entirely, because no-one cares about fairness to them.
Click to expand...

The problem is the only fair solution would push women out of sports.

The fair solution is to get rid of gendered sports and simply have people of a similar skill compete.

This would relegate females of all stripes to the benches.

So we have two choices, be fair and accept the consequences, or be unfair and do the same.
 
sadhatter said:
The problem is the only fair solution would push women out of sports.

The fair solution is to get rid of gendered sports and simply have people of a similar skill compete.

This would relegate females of all stripes to the benches.

So we have two choices, be fair and accept the consequences, or be unfair and do the same.
Click to expand...

Still not fair, because it's not about skill but about physics, apparently. A boy who has more muscle than another boy has an unfair advantage. A boy who has more testosterone has an advantage. A centimeter more in height, a gram more in weight...it's all unfair advantages. The only truly fair way to compete in sport would be to match up only those individuals who are exactly alike in every way, down to the molecular level. Because fairness!
 
TragicMonkey said:
Still not fair, because it's not about skill but about physics, apparently. A boy who has more muscle than another boy has an unfair advantage. A boy who has more testosterone has an advantage. A centimeter more in height, a gram more in weight...it's all unfair advantages. The only truly fair way to compete in sport would be to match up only those individuals who are exactly alike in every way, down to the molecular level. Because fairness!
Click to expand...

That's why we have weight and skill classes, because the point of sport is to find a winner, who out of those two was better.

But beyond that, what is your point? Pointing out flaws without proposing a solution is called whining.
 
Transgendered athletes should compete against each other. There's no point in putting them against the men, they'd get hammered, and there's no point putting them against the women because they have an unfair advantage.

Plus, if you had a separate category for trans athletes it would encourage more trans people to get involved in sports, which would be an added bonus.
 
sadhatter said:
That's why we have weight and skill classes, because the point of sport is to find a winner, who out of those two was better.
Click to expand...

Insufficent, though. Weight isn't the only factor. And how accurately are the weights determined? To the pound? Good heavens, that's not precise enough. It should be to the milligram.

But beyond that, what is your point? Pointing out flaws without proposing a solution is called whining.
Click to expand...

My point was that your proposed solutions are insufficiently fair. I merely carry them out further, to maximize fairness.
 
sadhatter said:
The problem is the only fair solution would push women out of sports.

The fair solution is to get rid of gendered sports and simply have people of a similar skill compete.

This would relegate females of all stripes to the benches.

So we have two choices, be fair and accept the consequences, or be unfair and do the same.
Click to expand...


Mack Beggs had pleaded for a "fair" solution. He wanted to wrestle with the boys.

He wasn't allowed to. He tried. He even went to court. And lost. The league wouldn't let him.

This issue was constructed by the blindered, hidebound prejudices of the league officials.

Now they have to deal with the fallout. My only disappointment is that people lose sight of the simple fact that it wasn't Begg's fault, or even his choice.

A quote from the article;

“If you really want to be a boy, why don’t you wrestle the boys?” a wrestling coach said during Beggs’s semifinal match.
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That's what he wanted to do. This coach had to have known that. But still he blames Beggs.
 
quadraginta said:
Mack Beggs had pleaded for a "fair" solution. He wanted to wrestle with the boys.

He wasn't allowed to. He tried. He even went to court. And lost. The league wouldn't let him.

This issue was constructed by the blindered, hidebound prejudices of the league officials.

Now they have to deal with the fallout. My only disappointment is that people lose sight of the simple fact that it wasn't Begg's fault, or even his choice.

A quote from the article;

​
That's what he wanted to do. This coach had to have known that. But still he blames Beggs.
Click to expand...

I imagine, even with steroids, he would've been crushed in the boys division.
 
Why not put Mack in the boys division, but in a weight class that would be comparable to his strength level?
 
timhau said:
... which, I presume, he would've been ok with, since that was where he wanted to wrestle.
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Brave guy. Were the officials worried about Mack getting hurt? Would they be liable if Mack got seriously hurt if they let him wrestle knowing he would be far outclassed in the boys' division?
 
Fudbucker said:
Brave guy. Were the officials worried about Mack getting hurt? Would they be liable if Mack got seriously hurt if they let him wrestle knowing he would be far outclassed in the boys' division?
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They clearly weren't worried about the girls getting hurt fighting with someone on steroids, so I doubt safety of the athletes was their concern.
 
Cain said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...a3817ac21a5_story.html?utm_term=.c620163393ad

Mack Beggs, the person at the center of this controversy, would prefer to wrestle males, but Texas state law requires participants to square off against those who share the sex listed on their birth certificate.

This boils down to a fairness issue. One of the respectable things about sports, almost everyone agrees, is that fairness matters (with the exception of stupid-ass overtime rules for the Super Bowl).

The solution here seems rather simple: Male transitioning to female? You wrestle dudes. Female transitioning to male? You wrestle dudes. Alternatively, we could just ignore sex/gender and have the best wrestle against each other (but this would destroy female athletics).
Click to expand...

I would say a much simpler solution would be that biological males compete against males and biological girls compete against girls, and no one using performance or any other physical enhancing substances should be allowed to compete at all.
 
jeffas69 said:
I would say a much simpler solution would be that biological males compete against males and biological girls compete against girls, and no one using performance or any other physical enhancing substances should be allowed to compete at all.
Click to expand...
And the 2% of the population that is intersex at birth should go just hide in the library?
 
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