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Rigged ***2008*** Elections

Coffee said:
I don't think Hilary or Obama would be elected. The US populace is not mature or enlightened enough to elect a non-white or woman to the presidency. There are too many misogynists, racists and bigots in the US. The pattern of "elect the white Christian male" has been going on for a long time and will probably continue.
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My, oh my.
You'd think there was a GOB conspiracy or something.
Or perhaps there are enough people who see that changing your story after every poll, re-issuing previously failed strategies, and claiming discrimination where none exists might not be a sign of character...
 
Coffee said:
I don't think Hilary or Obama would be elected. The US populace is not mature or enlightened enough to elect a non-white or woman to the presidency. There are too many misogynists, racists and bigots in the US. The pattern of "elect the white Christian male" has been going on for a long time and will probably continue.
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CptColumbo said:
That will probably be the excuse the Democrats use when they loose the election.
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They might.
I could be wrong but I don't think most of the US population is ready to elect a woman or a non-white regardless of their political affiliation. I hope my pessimism about the feelings of many Americans when it comes to race and gender is wrong. I really do.
 
Oliver said:
Huh? A simple string within the code and the fraud is perfect.
So what Diebold techs are you referring to besides the programmer?
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You think there is only oner programmer to program the thousands of unique ballots that exist on election day? Perhaps you should educate yourself on how US elections are run. On election day, there are thousands of other offices being filled besides President. Every precinct has there own unique ballots, some with hundreds of races. You would have to hack the software for all of these for your conspiracy fantasy to work.
 
rwguinn said:
My, oh my.
You'd think there was a GOB conspiracy or something.
Or perhaps there are enough people who see that changing your story after every poll, re-issuing previously failed strategies, and claiming discrimination where none exists might not be a sign of character...
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I don't see any GOP conspiracy. A woman or non-white could run on the GOB platform or an independent ticket and wouldn't be elected president. I do hope I am wrong though.
 
SDC said:
How on god's green earth could an entire country believe that accords named after something called "Meese Lake" were going to work?

How's the ex-Mrs Trudeau these days?

Are the prairie provinces about to secede? Why not?

What about ... uh, which term do you use for formerly-known-as-Indians? Secession, armed rebellions, control of the cigarette business, what?

Do you prefer casinos in Windsor or Detroit?
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Nice try, but it is MEECH Lake

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meech_Lake_Accord


Coffee said:
I don't think Hilary or Obama would be elected. The US populace is not mature or enlightened enough to elect a non-white or woman to the presidency. There are too many misogynists, racists and bigots in the US. The pattern of "elect the white Christian male" has been going on for a long time and will probably continue.
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I think you will be proven wrong. I suspect Hillary or Obama (unlikely Obama unfortunately) will win. USA is just fed up with the present regime, and given no white male is running as a front runner for the DEMS (Edwards a distant third)...
 
Coffee said:
I don't see any GOP conspiracy. A woman or non-white could run on the GOB platform or an independent ticket and wouldn't be elected president. I do hope I am wrong though.
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The perfect storm would be if in 2012 Condi Rice ran...

TAM:)
 
Alt+F4 said:
What happened in 2000 had nothing to do with faulty voting machines, it was faulty paper ballots. Oliver should stop watching "Man of the Year" over and over again. I think Ron Paul should move to Germany and run against Merkel.
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Ahh, therefore the need for computers!
:)
 
no because then the truthers, computer geeks and hacks they are, would hack in and Alex Jones would become President, then armageddon would commence.

TAM;)
 
T.A.M. said:
no because then the truthers, computer geeks and hacks they are, would hack in and Alex Jones would become President, then armageddon would commence.

TAM;)
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oh theyre hacks alright, but i doubt many of them are hackers, or even computer geeks
 
You need to approach this with the same attitude that you approach any other conspiracy theory with. It's odd that people who treat the Truthers with so much skepticism are so convinced that the 2008 election will be rigged before it has even happened.

What this shows is that the ideas of rigged elections in 2000 and 2004 are just like all of the 9/11 conspiracy theories--based on pure "Well how do you explain THIS"-type speculation while lacking any real, hard evidence whatsoever.

Is there hard proof that votes were deliberately tampered with?
Is there hard proof that ballots were deliberately miscounted?
Is there hard proof that voters were deliberately disenfranchised?
Is there hard proof that these things were done deliberately in favor of Bush?
Is there hard proof that the Republican Party is the culprit?

To me, it's no different than the 9/11 conspiracy theories. Thus, I propose to all believers in these "stolen elections", the same questions I pose to Truthers:

1) In your own words, describe exactly how the 2000 and 2004 elections were "rigged".

2) Do you have any hard evidence of your claims? Note that speculation, i.e. "Well how do you explain the..." does not count as "hard evidence".

3) What evidence would it take to get you to admit that you are wrong? (credit to Totovader for this question)
 
Coffee said:
I don't see any GOP conspiracy. A woman or non-white could run on the GOB platform or an independent ticket and wouldn't be elected president. I do hope I am wrong though.
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:confused::D
$%^&ing ijit kids.
G. O. B.
o. l o
o d y
d s

not GOP.

sigh...
Another dated reference right over their heads...
 
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rwguinn said:
You actually have politics up there? I thought everybody was too occupied with just stayiing warm and Exporting whatever that "beer" is to bother...:D
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You Americans have no right to bag anyone elses beer. You should instead be hanging your head in shame and begging forgiveness for giving this world miller "genuine draft" and budweiser. That is all.
 
peteweaver said:
Hilary will be the next President anyway, the republicans have had two terms, and now its time for the Democrats... Hilary is respected abroad, and at the moment the USA has an image problem abroad.
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Yeah, that seems to be the pattern. Dems win two elections, Republicans "steal" two elections, repeat. ;)

Coffee said:
I don't think Hilary or Obama would be elected. The US populace is not mature or enlightened enough to elect a non-white or woman to the presidency. There are too many misogynists, racists and bigots in the US. The pattern of "elect the white Christian male" has been going on for a long time and will probably continue.
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Oh for crying out loud.. yes, those are the ONLY reasons anyone could POSSIBLY have for not wanting to see either of those two as our next president. How ridiculous.

Anyway, 1337man wins this thread.
 
1337m4n said:
Is there hard proof that votes were deliberately tampered with?
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No, only anecdotal, and the authorities charged with investigating such complaints were not, in many cases, inclined to do so, as in Ohio and Florida.

Is there hard proof that ballots were deliberately miscounted?
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I'll have to look for a link but in Florida 2000, a consortium of news agencies determined that they were. Now I hear Katherine Harris is whining that she actually won the Senate race in 2006. Schandenfreude to the nth degree there.

Is there hard proof that voters were deliberately disenfranchised?
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Florida 2000 and the "felon purges" without verifying that people with similar names were not mis-identified. Harris didn't bother because it took a lot of black people off the rolls and increased the chance of her darling winning.

Is there hard proof that these things were done deliberately in favor of Bush?
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Either that or Harris is the most dispicible and lazy elected official ever to serve asa a Secretary of State anywhere in the country, second only to Kenneth Blackwell, who is down-right evil and malicious.

Is there hard proof that the Republican Party is the culprit?
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Some idiot on Karl Rove's staff e-mailed proof of that to a friend of Greg Palast's, who happily turned it over to Palast.

3) What evidence would it take to get you to admit that you are wrong? (credit to Totovader for this question)
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If Kenneth Blackwell turned over every scrap of paper related to the elections in Ohio 2004 and they verified everything he said. But that is not going to happen because he has already destroyerd evidence in defiance of court orders.
 
maxpower1227 said:
Yeah, that seems to be the pattern. Dems win two elections, Republicans "steal" two elections, repeat. ;)



Oh for crying out loud.. yes, those are the ONLY reasons anyone could POSSIBLY have for not wanting to see either of those two as our next president. How ridiculous.

Anyway, 1337man wins this thread.
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Certainly there are people will not vote for either due to differences in political ideology. To say that race and gender is not a factor at all would be ridiculous. To some people race and gender does matter.
I'm not suggesting there's a "white male conspiracy" or anything like that. I am simply saying there are a lot of racists and bigots and they can vote.
I do hope that I am wrong about how much of a factor race and gender will be in the minds of most voters.
 
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