Republican Timidity?

[Peephole]

I'm an optimist. Also, despite Bush's 'druthers, the SCOTUS ordered Boumediene et al. to be set free as part of the opinion in Boumediene v. Bush. So the system still works. . .eventually.

Yes, but at the same time, Obama and many Democrats are co-opting Bush's policies, making them ingrained into American politics.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Yes, but at the same time, Obama and many Democrats are co-opting Bush's policies, making them ingrained into American politics.

True. (Especially so on the items I keep harping about: Obama could end discrimination in organizations that receive Faith-Based Initiatives money, prohibit extraordinary rendition and do away with "don't ask don't tell" by executive order.)

And what's really weird is I still hear people refer to Obama as being pretty far left of center!

 

[willhaven]

I know, most of these things happened before 9/11, when waterboarding was still considered torture, not an "advanced interrogation technique". blah

ADX Florence, CO

Here are some cases that happened after 9/11.

The report offers an exhaustive analysis of federal terrorism prosecutions and relevant federal laws through May 2009. These cases range from epic mega-trials, including those involving the first attack on the World Trade Center (1993) and the East African embassy bombings (1998), to individual, pre-emptive prosecutions focused on prevention. The 2009 Report presents statistical data on 119 international terrorism cases filed since 9/11 in which a total of 289 defendants were charged in the criminal justice system. Of the 214 defendants whose cases were resolved as of June 2, 2009, 195 were convicted either by verdict or by a guilty plea. This is a conviction rate of 91.121%, a slight increase over the 90.625% conviction rate reported in May of 2008.

This link has a synopsis of many of these cases and often has scanned court documents of the actual indictments.

So when someone pretends civilian trials and imprisonment within the US is some new precedent, they're simply full of crap. I didn't realize how many were tried in US courts and how many were held in US prisons until recently. It's good info to have.

 

[Beerina]

It's one of the principles that separate liberals from conservatives; liberals uphold the spirit and intent of the Constitution while conservatives look for loopholes.

Well, it's not a loophole if it's used to justify something you want done, of course.


For example, giving Congress the power to regulate trade among the several states was intended to stop states from imposing tariffs from goods just passing through and other similar issues. It was not intended to give Congress carte blanche to pass almost any law it felt.

Your meme defense mechanism will now engage by saying this or that law is rrrreeeeeeaaaaallllly necessary. Or that "meanings change" and "living document" and so on, which, of course, is the primary tool of the loophole finder.


It's very difficult to be intellectually honest and hold to a logical argument when it does not support a particular position you have an emotional investment in.

 

[Towlie]

Stand up the straw man:

Your meme defense mechanism will now engage by saying..."

... and then knock it back down:

It's very difficult to be intellectually honest and hold to a logical argument when it does not support a particular position you have an emotional investment in.

 

[leftysergeant]

For example, giving Congress the power to regulate trade among the several states was intended to stop states from imposing tariffs from goods just passing through and other similar issues. It was not intended to give Congress carte blanche to pass almost any law it felt.

And since manufacturing became more important than agriculture, and new methods of procuring food and raw materials, and almost everything entered into interstate trade, I fell to the government, in order to pormote the general welfare by ensuring that safetry standards were met in interstate commerce. Now stop derailing the thread with your mantra.

It's very difficult to be intellectually honest and hold to a logical argument when it does not support a particular position you have an emotional investment in.

Which is why I have always found Libertarians and anarchocapitalists a pain in the butt to talk with.

 

[Towlie]

Yes, Brainster, many of us who supported Obama are very disappointed in how he persists in trying to placate conservatives. I wince whenever I hear him say "bipartisan". He reminds me of that old song about the woman who rescued and healed a rattlesnake, tried to pet it, and was shocked when she got bitten. I'm still wondering how many more times Barack Obama needs to get bitten before he gives up and starts doing the right thing regardless of what Republicans want.

Lyrics to The Snake

Just out, a view remarkably similar to my "snake" metaphor: