Renewable Energy

novaphile said:
Mine were installed in 2008 and paid themselves off in three years.

My electricity provider organised the project, and the scheme was 'too good to be true'.

i.e. They paid for everything up front, I had fixed repayments ($112 per month IIRC) for a fixed period of time.

The panels were generating and exporting $90.00 per month (on average) from the day that they were installed, so I was actually only paying about $20 per month to pay the things off.

As far as I could tell, it was free money for me, and I've never looked back.

They're still chugging away up there, making free money, and the reduced feed-in tariff.

This is from my most recent electricity bill, note that it only shows the amount of solar generation that was exported.

I'm at home full time now, and charge my car a couple of times per week.

Solar exports

ItemDescriptionUnitsPriceAmount
Solar feed-in credit (incl GST, if any)261 kWh$-0.460000-$120.06
Total exports-$120.06
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They're paying you 46 cents per kWH? Average US resident purchases electricity at a significantly lower rate. How is it possible that the NET METERING credit is that high?

Electricity Rates

Compare today's residential and commercial electricity rates, plans, and offers from energy providers across the United States.
www.electricchoice.com www.electricchoice.com
 
acbytesla said:
They're paying you 46 cents per kWH? Average US resident purchases electricity at a significantly lower rate. How is it possible that the NET METERING credit is that high?

Electricity Rates

Compare today's residential and commercial electricity rates, plans, and offers from energy providers across the United States.
www.electricchoice.com www.electricchoice.com
Click to expand...

Sorry,

No idea. I just signed up for the scheme that was offered, it looked like free money to me, (and still does).

They've been running since 2008.

Panels generate a lot more for the same area these days, (mine are 188W panels and 250W seem to be the standard these days) so I'll probably upgrade soon and put in a 10kWh battery at the same time.

The best part was before I bought my PHEV, the company called me and said: "You've generated a pretty serious credit, more than your next couple of years of power bills..." Receiving a cheque for $1000 from the power company was pretty satisfying.

:)

My brother ended up putting in a new system (5.5kW vs. the 1.5kW that I have), and routinely gets cheques from the power company.

These days, my system and my usage, particularly the car, are pretty close, so I pay a bill of about $200 per quarter.

(NB. There are also 'senior discounts' involved in that, so probably not a good reflection of what I should be paying.)
 
acbytesla said:
They're paying you 46 cents per kWH? Average US resident purchases electricity at a significantly lower rate. How is it possible that the NET METERING credit is that high?

Electricity Rates

Compare today's residential and commercial electricity rates, plans, and offers from energy providers across the United States.
www.electricchoice.com www.electricchoice.com
Click to expand...

Oh, and our cost per kWh is much higher than the USA, it's $0.549 for the first 976 kWh, and $0.422 for anything over that.

(NB. AU$1 is about US$0.70)

So the feed-in tariff, while high, is less than what we pay for power.

(I only used 550kWh on my last bill, so don't hit the lower tariff).
 
novaphile said:
Panels generate a lot more for the same area these days, (mine are 188W panels and 250W seem to be the standard these days) so I'll probably upgrade soon and put in a 10kWh battery at the same time.
Click to expand...
Just FYI, our year-old ones are 450W each. 250W panels are "old tech" these days, and are being replaced. Battery capacities are improving too, although 10kWh is about standard. Ours is 12kWh, with the option to add a module to make it 16kWh in one stack (BYD battery box system).
 
Are there succesfull companies running on a business plan of leasing people's roof to install the companies own solar panels to sell the produced electricity to the power company?

With a 3 year payback, I would imagine that some companies would jump to get massive returns on investment.

I personally think that if electricity costs so much that this is an option, it is a clear indication of a wide policy failure at some point. With those prices, there is no incentive to get an EV (unless gas is really expensive) and it will really penalize people living in apartments where PV/EV combo is not viable.
 
Blank said:
Are there succesfull companies running on a business plan of leasing people's roof to install the companies own solar panels to sell the produced electricity to the power company?

With a 3 year payback, I would imagine that some companies would jump to get massive returns on investment.

I personally think that if electricity costs so much that this is an option, it is a clear indication of a wide policy failure at some point. With those prices, there is no incentive to get an EV (unless gas is really expensive) and it will really penalize people living in apartments where PV/EV combo is not viable.
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Our petrol/gas prices are expensive. It is far cheaper, even without household solar power, to charge an EV than to fill the equivalent ICE car with fuel. Something like a third to a quarter the cost. So apartment dwellers are not penalised for owning an EV. Their vehicle running costs are still significantly reduced, just not approaching zero.

Have not heard of anyone leasing their roof out. But we do have business options for collective power management.
 
Blank said:
Are there succesfull companies running on a business plan of leasing people's roof to install the companies own solar panels to sell the produced electricity to the power company?

With a 3 year payback, I would imagine that some companies would jump to get massive returns on investment.

I personally think that if electricity costs so much that this is an option, it is a clear indication of a wide policy failure at some point. With those prices, there is no incentive to get an EV (unless gas is really expensive) and it will really penalize people living in apartments where PV/EV combo is not viable.
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Sort of. Here in Vermont we've seen companies that do something similar, basically installing their panels on one's roof, whereupon the installation is paid off by the power that's sent to the grid. Once it's paid off, the homeowner owns the panels and their output. I'm not aware of a straight lease plan. I suspect that could get complicated with changes of ownership, and also with the question of who pays to remove the installation if the homeowner cancels the lease.

e.t.a. Remember too, that the payback time will differ depending on what you're calculating. If you use your solar energy to supplant power bought at retail price, the payback will be much quicker than if you sell your solar energy back to the power company at the net metering price.

further e.t.a....WRT leasing, I do think that some solar farms are on leased land. That's something that can be made binding over a long time, and a good use for land that's no longer needed for pasturage and the like.
 
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novaphile said:
Oh, and our cost per kWh is much higher than the USA, it's $0.549 for the first 976 kWh, and $0.422 for anything over that.

(NB. AU$1 is about US$0.70)

So the feed-in tariff, while high, is less than what we pay for power.

(I only used 550kWh on my last bill, so don't hit the lower tariff).
Click to expand...
Do you also pay a monthly fee for the connection to the grid? I am no longer connected to the grid so I can't effectively compare bills. But when I was, about 30 percent of the bill was the connection fee. Then there was various taxes.
 
Blank said:
Are there succesfull companies running on a business plan of leasing people's roof to install the companies own solar panels to sell the produced electricity to the power company?

With a 3 year payback, I would imagine that some companies would jump to get massive returns on investment.

I personally think that if electricity costs so much that this is an option, it is a clear indication of a wide policy failure at some point. With those prices, there is no incentive to get an EV (unless gas is really expensive) and it will really penalize people living in apartments where PV/EV combo is not viable.
Click to expand...

I've heard of schemes like that for retirement villages, and city buildings.

The company that leases the roof space pays a flat fee, and takes any profit above that amount.
 
bruto said:
Sort of. Here in Vermont we've seen companies that do something similar, basically installing their panels on one's roof, whereupon the installation is paid off by the power that's sent to the grid. Once it's paid off, the homeowner owns the panels and their output. I'm not aware of a straight lease plan. I suspect that could get complicated with changes of ownership, and also with the question of who pays to remove the installation if the homeowner cancels the lease.

e.t.a. Remember too, that the payback time will differ depending on what you're calculating. If you use your solar energy to supplant power bought at retail price, the payback will be much quicker than if you sell your solar energy back to the power company at the net metering price.

further e.t.a....WRT leasing, I do think that some solar farms are on leased land. That's something that can be made binding over a long time, and a good use for land that's no longer needed for pasturage and the like.
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There have been lots of solar companies that have tried it. But it's a mess. It makes it difficult to sell your house.
 
acbytesla said:
There have been lots of solar companies that have tried it. But it's a mess. It makes it difficult to sell your house.
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I imagine it would. It would involve figuring out the equity, and the debt would either be added to the price of the house, or the new buyer would have to assume the loan.

I was contacted by a solar outfit a couple of years ago, and they were supposed to come and evaluate my place for an estimate. I don't know whether they checked it out in my absence and left, or just never came at all. If I ever do a solar installation, I would expect to buy it outright.
 
acbytesla said:
Do you also pay a monthly fee for the connection to the grid? I am no longer connected to the grid so I can't effectively compare bills. But when I was, about 30 percent of the bill was the connection fee. Then there was various taxes.
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So (rule of), acbytesla is no longer connected to the AC power grid pioneered by Nikola Tesla!
 
Norman Alexander said:
Our petrol/gas prices are expensive. It is far cheaper, even without household solar power, to charge an EV than to fill the equivalent ICE car with fuel. Something like a third to a quarter the cost. So apartment dwellers are not penalised for owning an EV. Their vehicle running costs are still significantly reduced, just not approaching zero.
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I feel sorry for you if that is the case. Just check some comparable data from models that offer gas or EV like Corsa the WLTP numbers give 4.5l/100km consumption rate for gas and 16,7 kWh/100km for EV. Break even at 0.42$/kWh would be at around 1,5$/l gas price with 100% charge efficiency and not using any commercial quick chargers that cost a premium. You also need to fork out 10-25% more for a similar model EV car.

Depends heavily on use though. For inner cities with loads of traffic EVs/Hybrids are really economical while gas suffers from stoppages. But for highways and those electric prices, I would opt gas still
 
As far as renewables go, I have high hopes for sodium battery tech. Affordable, rare earth free storage is a must for wider PV usage in my mind. Get those done and it would be a game changer that would allow large areas of the globe to use solar all year around.

Current Li-batteries can't be a long term answer on any renewable solution
 
Blank said:
As far as renewables go, I have high hopes for sodium battery tech. Affordable, rare earth free storage is a must for wider PV usage in my mind. Get those done and it would be a game changer that would allow large areas of the globe to use solar all year around.

Current Li-batteries can't be a long term answer on any renewable solution
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Yes, the little I've seen on this sounds good. I hope it pans out.
 
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