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Remote healing

saizai

Graduate Poster
Joined
Jul 29, 2005
Messages
1,374
Below is a draft for a study on remote healing - "prayer", if you will.

Two questions for you all:

1. Are there any methodological flaws? Any ways to make it better and/or more airtight?

2. Would this qualify for the challenge? It isn't about any *personal* supernatural powers, but is about them in general, and run *by* me. It is, of course, pretty obvious as to methods and what constitutes a positive result.

Comment?

-------------------------------


A new study on remote healing - DRAFT
Sai Emrys, 8/13/05

Summary

There have been studies done before on the efficacy of prayer. They have, however, suffered from some important flaws that render them nearly useless for answering the two main initial questions on the topic: does it work, and if so, how can it be made to work better? (The question of how it works is obviously a rather more difficult one.)

Previous studies have made mistakes:
• being too vulnerable to a purely “placebo effect” explanation;
• having far too small a sample size to be worth anything statistically;
• having significant breaches of double-blind;
• not tracking potentially important variables that can then be pointed to as confounds;
• not being controlled, or being purely retrospective;
• admitting numerous biases, e.g. selection bias for the measurements;
• being exclusive to one religion, or otherwise being manipulated to make a point of ideology by the study’s organizers;
• having unmeasurable results.

The number of studies that manage not to have one (or many) of these flaws is simply too few. So, I want to run a study that will address this.

First, I want to be clear on what this study is designed to examine: remote prayer. “Remote healing” is a more accurate but less intuitive description. Simply put, it will measure whether – and if yes, how much – people with serious illnesses are affected by people praying for them, in a remote location, having no communication between the two sets of subjects.

The recipients will be a group of people drawn from various hospitals, who all have similar, serious, terminal conditions. They will be asked to answer a short survey (demographics, views on religion, etc. – see below), give informed consent to participating in the study, and choose how they want their information to be used. In no event will they know whether they were selected to be prayed for or not, or by whom, unless they abandon the study or the study comes to an end; nor will their doctors.

Potential disease candidates include: late-stage AIDS; cancer; coma; etc. Ideally, the condition chosen will be something that has some chance of cure or spontaneous remission; few acute (vs. ongoing) medical treatments; low life expectancy; and easily rated progress. Having a moderate amount of various trackable characteristics – e.g. pain, typical days spent in hospital, typical quality-of-life ratings, etc. – will make observing any change as a result of the study be easier.

The healers (as a generic and semantically unambiguous form of “pray-ers”) will be drawn from various religious groups, preferably spread across the world and from a diverse pool of religious beliefs and practices. Each will be assigned to pray for one recipient at a time (and each recipient will have one or zero people assigned to pray for them), once a week, for six weeks. They will be asked to keep a log – to verify that they did in fact carry out their duties – and of course to note any particular unusual events or experiences they wish to record.

Each recipient will be randomly placed into one of five groups: control (50%), informed & directed (12.5%), informed & undirected (12.5%), uninformed & directed (12.5%), and uninformed & undirected (12.5%). These latter groups do not affect the central question of whether prayer works at all; all of them will receive an equal amount of prayer, just in different ways.

Those in the “informed” group will have personal (but unidentifiable) information given to their assigned healer. Namely: demographics; first name; general location (e.g. state); detailed description of their diagnosis; and if possible, photo and detailed updates on the recipient’s status. This will not be given to those in the “uninformed” group. Both groups will be given the patient’s ID number (randomly assigned) and a basic description of their diagnosis at the beginning of the study.

Those in the “directed” group will have their healer instructed to pray for specific benefits. E.g., for the cure of their disease, reduction in pain, prolongation of life, and general happiness etc. Those in the “undirected” group will have their healer instructed to pray in a purely general way: e.g. along the lines of “may God’s (Universe / Mother’s / etc) will be done”. This will stay the same for any particular recipient, but will change – 50-50 – for each healer.

All patients will be tracked as to the course of their disease, their symptoms, etc. (See below.)

At the end of the study, the groups will be compared to see if there are statistically significant differences in symptom score change, length of hospital stay, money spent in treatment, length of survival since beginning the study, etc. – as well as in relevant variables that are expected to be randomized into equality, such as demographics, doctor skill, initial diagnosis, etc.

That’s it, really. If recipients and healers mutually wish to have their contact info released to each other, they will be introduced; if not, not. Everyone will get a copy of the overall results, as well as a copy of the results of their own trials.


Info gathered on recipient:
• General:
o Name
o Random ID number
o Random confirmation number (disclosed only to recipient)
o Demographics
ï‚§ Gender
ï‚§ Age / date of birth
ï‚§ Religion
• Type
• Fervency / activity
• Length of time practicing
o This religion
o Anything seriously
ï‚§ Socioeconomics
• Ethnicity
• Income
• Parents’ income
ï‚§ Location
o Picture
o Belief in the efficacy of prayer
o Recipient of prayer otherwise
ï‚§ Self-prayer
• Frequency
• Style
• Length
ï‚§ Known recipient (e.g. church, family)
• Ditto
o Personality (intro/extroversion etc)
• Disease
o Prognosis at start (e.g. expected survival rate, life expectancy, etc)
o Dated progress notes
o Numeric measures
ï‚§ Amount of meds used by type (e.g. anesthetics)
ï‚§ # days in hospital
 # “incidents” (positive or negative)
ï‚§ Self-reported pain / quality-of-life scores
ï‚§ $ spent in treatment
ï‚§ Doctor skill (e.g. # years practicing medicine)
ï‚§ Length of survival

Info gathered on healer:
• Same demographics etc
• Usual praying style
o Directed / undirected
o Ritual / group / appeal to ___ / …
o Duration of one “prayer”

Variables:
• Prayed for or not
• Personal information about recipient given to healer (e.g. name, gender, age, photo, detailed description of current problem / past history, status updates, general location, vs. minimal)
• Directed vs. undirected prayer
 
One note: Technically, revealing name and demographic information about the recipient to their assigned healer breaks double blind. However, to make an argument for this breach affecting the results of the study, one would have to admit as a premise that the actions, perceptions, or beliefs of the healer have some effect on the patient, even though there is zero communication from healer to patient. And that would be argument in support a positive result.
 
Number One: When people are ill, it is common and normal for their friends, family, co-workers, loved ones, and church family to pray for them. Their names are often put on "prayer chains" where church groups pray for them, even if they are unknown to the pray-er.

How will you control for those prayers and their possible impact on the the subject's illness and health.


Number Two: A log kept by the pray-er or healer can be falsified. Unless the healer is observed praying by an impartial observer, there is no real way of knowing whether the prayers really took place, how completely they took place, or whether the pray-er was distracted or fully concentrating.

How will you control for that?


Number Three: After Elizebeth Targ's untimely death, it was revealed that the positive results of her famous prayer study were accomplished by diddling the data.

WHAT TOO FEW PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT TARG'S FAMOUS AIDS STUDY

That her study had been unblinded and then "reblinded" to scour for data that confirmed the thesis - and the Western Journal of Medicine did not know this fact when it decided to publish...

A Prayer Before Dying, Wired Magazine, page 5 of 6.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/10.12/prayer.html?pg=1&topic=&topic_set=

How will you prevent data mining?


Gayle
 
I second Gayle's note about extra-study prayer. You simply cannot control for that and it is a fatal flaw in the methodology.

Since there is no claim, this study is not a basis for the JREF challenge.

This methodology (the fatal flaw aside) is quite straightforward. Have you reviewed the literature for previous studies? If not, why not? If so, what were the results?
 
Re. possible extra-study prayer: It is indeed a potential flaw, but only in that it could generate false negatives. (Unless you were to argue a potentially greater or worse placebo effect on the recipient, in which case you'd have to accept their self-report as being sufficient measure thereof, which is taken care of as below.)

This is "controlled" in the same way as other possible confounds like demographics: randomized and tracked inasmuch as possible. Ask whether the recipient will be praying (and if so how often etc), and whether there will be others doing so to their knowledge. Rely on randomization to even it out, and use the tracking just to check that the numbers between groups aren't different to a degree enough to interfere with the study.


Re. possible falsification: sure, that's a possibility. But that's true with *all* studies, and I don't think it's something that should be considered a serious flaw. They report when they do, are encouraged to be honest, and asked to swear that the information they give is true. That's all you can ask.


Data mining: I think what you mean is the danger of selection bias (yes?). If so, that's solvable: choose the selection method beforehand.

Better, run one study, massage the data to get the best data you can - i.e. a way to calculate a single-number result (based on disease progress) that results in the highest difference between control and non-, given existing data. In fact, you could also massage the other variables, if e.g. on the first round you find that the "informed undirected" trials give better results - just use that version for the second round.

Then throw away all the data, and using that measure, do it again - exactly the same in other respects. Since the measure is chosen before the data is known, and no data that was used to choose the measure goes into the second round's results, there is no selection bias.

AFAIK, this is methodologically sound.


Claim: That symptom scores (as mentioned above, this would be by a predetermined formula [that is, chosen before data is known; not necessarily fixed from study to study]) would be better for the group that is prayed for, to a certain degree of certainty and certain size of effect.

The last two are variables that'd need to be discussed. I think 99% certainty of difference of 1% would be a good starting point. This would depend on the number of participants available, though; and I have no idea how large an effect one would expect (obviously, if the percentage-effect cutoff is too high you could claim false negative). 99% certainty I think is good enough for a first pass trial - a full version would go for something more like 99.9% (or better), and have far more participants to get that.


Research: I've read the book "Healing Words", which is a review of this, as well as a scattered sample of others which I don't recall in particular. If you have suggestions for good sources for more - particularly ones that compile multiple studies and focus on those that are intended to affect human disease - please let me know.

I incorporated some of the questions mentioned in the book into the design of this study; most of them were things I had thought of beforehand, but there were a couple I'd overlooked.
 
Gayle - Thanks for the link. Quite an interesting article.

Do you happen to have sources for either the original study, or the brain cancer study it references that it says would be done sometime this year?


But yes, as described they make two pretty bad flaws. First, the unblinding of people who are actually interacting with patients. Second, they commit the sin of selection bias - which can be controlled as I described in my previous comment.
 
Actually, 95% certainty is IIRC the cutoff for general "statistically significant".

Anyone better at math than I who can tell me what difference that would make in either the magnitude of change you'd be able to detect, or the number of trials required?

Might be worth lowering the certainty requirement to get a finer detection out of fewer participants for the 'exploratory' study, then up it for the second (larger) one.
 
saizai said:
Re. possible extra-study prayer: It is indeed a potential flaw, but only in that it could generate false negatives.
...which is roughly akin to, "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
 
Pardon?

As I understand it, the objection is that the control group might be prayed for *more* than the test group, and that this would be a potential confound.

If you're talking about non-blind prayer, then yes you could argue change via placebo effect. Randomization and tracking would be sufficient to check this off.

If you're talking about blind prayer, well, that's kinda hard to track. You'd have to assume it randomized out.

If you're talking about the control group being prayed for *less* than test, well that's the point isn't it? Aside from the same clause re. placebo control (above), this seems to be irrelevant.

Either way, I figure it's controlled.
 
As soon as the "recipients" know what the trial is about, you will have a problem. They could be praying for themselves, at random times (or even all the time), and with varying fervency.

You seem to be making a pre-judgement without proof - that the more pay-ers, the better the result will be in some measureable way. Who is to say that one pray-er alone is sufficient to produce the effect? Actually, given the nature of the exercise, that WOULD be sufficient - doesn't God (or the deity being prayed to) hear all prayers, no matter how small?

You seem to be tacitly defining this study to be prayers to a "Christian" God. Have you considered the possibilities that it may be equally viable to consider prayers in other religions, that other religions may be viable and Christianity is not, and that cross-over effects (Hindus praying for Cristian patients) may be a factor?

Much of this simply cannot be controlled for in any meaningful way, so I would suggest your study will simply replicate the results that Elizabeth Targ's study did - nothing, unless you seriously breach study protocols and do creative data-mining, ie. create false results.
 
Knowledge: Unavoidable but would not affect the results, since this is equal between control and test groups. Yes, you could say that if they're prayed for at all they meet the quota as you describe it... but there's no way for that to generate a false positive, and there'd still be some who were prayed for solely as a result of the study. In any case, the only thing it could do would be to reduce the size of the effect.

"Pre-judgement" - it's intrinsically part of the experiment. If you pray for someone, do they get better? Your objection is frivolous.

Christian - Did you read the whole thing? I was quite explicit in saying that the "healers" should be drawn from as diverse a religious/practice pool as possible. Crossover effects would indeed be interesting in followup studies if merited; it would be interesting if there were any difference. This doesn't affect control vs. non-control though.

Care to explain what uncontrolled factors would influence the results such that the test group patients do better than the control group?

Keep in mind, as far as KREF is concerned, that is the one and only question that is relevant. Anything else presumes that the answer is yes and there might be variation within it that makes for "better" or "worse" prayer.
 
saizai said:
Knowledge: Unavoidable but would not affect the results, since this is equal between control and test groups. Yes, you could say that if they're prayed for at all they meet the quota as you describe it... but there's no way for that to generate a false positive, and there'd still be some who were prayed for solely as a result of the study. In any case, the only thing it could do would be to reduce the size of the effect.
Two points:

First, almost all these subjects, test and control group, will almost inevitably be praying for themselves personally in some way or another. They may be hoping, wishing, scared, determined, whatever - all are forms of "prayer" for intervention. In addition, each of them, test and control, will have some to many family and community members quite possibly actively involved in prayer of some sort all the time of exactly the same type that is being tested here. If prayer is effective, and the pray-ers in your study are only providing part-time and impersonal efforts, how do you propose to mask the much much greater self, family and community prayer effects out? It would be like trying to hear one person whispering in the crowd shouting at a football game...

Second: You have not addressed the question of how much prayer is required to get an effect - you are assuming that more prayer (pray-ers?) equals more effect, but that is a poor assumption (and may even be theologically incorrect). Prayer could be simply a binary effect instead of gradual - it works or it doesn't. And how do you know that prayer can even be directed at one person particularly anyway? Perhaps prayer works like fog - it can't be aimed, it just covers everyone in general.

saizai said:
"Pre-judgement" - it's intrinsically part of the experiment. If you pray for someone, do they get better? Your objection is frivolous.
And your dismissal is impolite. If you want to have commentary on your work, be gracious enough to hear it out. And if you read above, you will see that you are assuming that you can indeed apply a definite force and measure its output. The reality is that you have failed to take into account any number of confounding factors that could mask, swamp, accentuate, or hinder any effect you may be measuring. In short, you won't know if there was an effect, even if it existed.

saizai said:
Christian - Did you read the whole thing? I was quite explicit in saying that the "healers" should be drawn from as diverse a religious/practice pool as possible. Crossover effects would indeed be interesting in followup studies if merited; it would be interesting if there were any difference. This doesn't affect control vs. non-control though.
Yes it does affect control groups. Are you taking a closer look at what each of these religions might mean by "prayer"? And read above again how prayer may be non-directional, or "un-aimable".

saizai said:
Care to explain what uncontrolled factors would influence the results such that the test group patients do better than the control group?
See above.

saizai said:
Keep in mind, as far as JREF is concerned, that is the one and only question that is relevant. Anything else presumes that the answer is yes and there might be variation within it that makes for "better" or "worse" prayer.
I think you will find that your protocol leaks like a seive, and won't be agreed to anywhere that does real science, let alone by JREF. Then again, I'm nothing to do with that side of things in JREF - just a humble poster. So I could be wrong!
 
Zep - I see all your points as being essentially identical, so I'll address them as such. My appologies for any percieved impoliteness on my part.

(I'd like to point out, btw, that your point #1 assumes the theological stance you argue against assuming in point #2. Do you have a suggestion as to how to address both perspectives simultaneously?)


As I said, the one and only thing under question is whether *my* initiation of prayer for them - via the "healer" group of subjects - has an effect.

Yes, you could argue that prayer is binary, etc. However, all such arguments must necessarily come from a standpoint that assumes that it exists and is real; I would accept them as hypothetical reasons why this study could generate a false negative, but I fail to see any potential for a false *positive*.

I am "assuming" in the same way that I think a casual person would assume the same. Or anyone who wishes to employ prayer - for they assume that their action is not rendered obsolete by some hardy monk who came centuries before them and prayed for everything in existence. For that matter, your hypothesis is instantly removed by this statement: I hereby pray for the good health, long life, and happiness of every human on this planet exisiting from this point in time onwards.

If your binary theory is right, then no similar prayer could have effect - within your theological framework.

Please note that I myself - in word and in the study - am making no claims whatsoever as to the mechanism (if any), theological points, etc. As I said, I solely care about whether I can show a difference between control and test; if you claim that there are things that make the prayer less effective, that will just reduce the result. That is a perfectly acceptable outcome for me.


Christian: Please explain what you mean by "Yes it does affect control groups." Are you claiming that it the religion of the praying persons would differentially affect control vs test group recipients?

For that matter, are you claiming that it would do so via "mundane" means (and thus be a potential confound to this experiment)?


Directionality: Sure, it might. In which case one would find that attempting to pray for any particular person (as in this study) would not give a positive result. This is an acceptable (negative) outcome.


Again... you say the protocol "leaks like a sieve". But I am not seeing any arguments about how it could return a *false positive*. That is the only thing of concern, methodologically. Anything else is a "negative outcome" - namely, that the power in question was not proven by this study. (Obviously, it is not possible to prove the negative, that the power does not exist - because one can make arguments such as those you have raised that would render prayer logically self-consistent but untestable.)

(E.g.: claiming a theological standpoint by which prayer only works for those who are not trying, or assisting in trying, to assess its validity. Not far off from what some Christian apologists do argue. While suspicious, this hypothesis is by definition not disprovable [nor provable].)

If you have suggestions that work from your particular worldview on how prayer might function, as to how to design the study so as not to unintentionally exclude an effect by being *too* tight (without breaking the previous), by all means please let me know. Do you?
 
Oh, one additional thing that could be done to make it even more airtight: instead of randomly assigning people to control or test, you group people into pairs (by computer) such that each pair of recipients are as similar to each other as possible (in terms of demographics, prognosis, etc). Then one is assigned to control, and one to test.

In this way, you will get a yet more equal distribution between the two groups.
 
And one more rebuttal to the "you are assuming prayer is cumulative not binary" argument:

If you make the maximum assumption of your recipients - namely, that each and every one of them has been prayed for by some third party to the experiement (e.g. their relatives or themselves), then by the binary theory no prayer for any one in particular could have an effect. Therefore the study would show a negative result. This is acceptable.

If you make anything less, then you admit that at least X% of the recipients have *not* been prayed for by some third party. Randomization would dictate that in a large enough pool of recipients, this X% will be distributed between control and test groups rougly 50-50. Therefore, whether those individuals are prayed for or not is purely a result of this experiment, and thus, if whether they are prayed for or not affects their health (which is the central question of this experiment), it will show up as a result overall - diluted depending on how small X is, of course. This would constitute a postive result, which of course is also acceptable.

Therefore, I don't see how this argument constitutes a methodological flaw - it's purely a theological objection that could justify viewing a negative result as not indicative of a lack of (one-time) benefit from prayer.

As I said, if you have suggestions for how to make the design better so as to *not* lessen its effects from the 'flaw' you point out, please let me know.
 
Yes, I have indeed outlined a number of possible contradictory situations that may occur. The point being that, in so many ways, it's immensely improbable that you will ensure that you are measuring any "real" effect that you want to measure.

As I'm sure you know, one of the prime design factors in good experiments is to have only one controlled variable at one time. Otherwise you cannot say for sure if that variable or another is responsible for any singular observed phenomenon or data point. With this hypothesis, there is no way this can be done. Your protocol has so many uncontrolled variables that it is not in the least likely to be considered to gather any significant data.

False positives could come from family members and/or religious colleagues, not part of the experiment, praying for members of the no-prayer control group. They could also come from the unexpected availability of new drugs or procedures (or simply changes to same) that affect the patients' outcomes one way or another. Even a change in the weather can affect terminal patients with bronchial conditions. All uncontrolled variables.

Your point about the hardy monk from the past is not a joke - how do you know there isn't some bearded gent in a hermit's cave in the Himalayas whose current religious devotions are responsible for any or all effects you may measure? Uncontrolled variable. And is prayer applicable across time? Certainly many mainstream religions believe so - consider Catholic prayers for future divine benevolence... More uncontrolled variables.

Agreed, all this is more than faintly ridiculous, but they are applicable given the original hypothesis. Your intent is fair, but the design of experiments to measure "prayer" will always collapse on themselves under the sheer weight of all the imponderables that cannot be controlled for.
 
False positives could come from family members and/or religious colleagues, not part of the experiment, praying for members of the no-prayer control group. They could also come from the unexpected availability of new drugs or procedures (or simply changes to same) that affect the patients' outcomes one way or another. Even a change in the weather can affect terminal patients with bronchial conditions. All uncontrolled variables.

If they were to come from blind prayer, then that would constitue a true positive - as a positive result from blind prayer is what this study would be after in the first place.

All of your other factors (mundane and otherwise) are controlled, by randomization. Unless you can suggest some way by which the control and test groups would differ significantly in their exposures to these variables?

If not, then they are equally affected, and there will be no statistical difference in the result of comparing the two groups. If you can argue otherwise, please enlighten me.


As for your non-mundane factors, if you are seriously suggesting that they could cause a false positive, then I think they would qualify for the JREF challenge anyway. As I said, I make no claim whatsoever about how the results are achieved. I do not give a damn whether they are through the efforts of the individuals praying, or through your monk in a cave who wishes to trick me into believing that it is so.

If the monk in the cave wishes to trick me into believing that it is *not* so - by exactly counteracting the (presumably assumed) real effect of the prayer - then that too is a completely uncontrollable confound, in this study as in any other whatsoever. Your argument is equivalent to that of "intelligent falling". Surely not what I should be expecting from a rationalist?

So come... please either point out mundane ways in which this could generate a false positive, or suggest ways to improve the study which would better take into account your views of the nonmundane.


[Edit:] Also, the initial line of the quote... implies that prayer is actually harmful (since you say that potentially praying for the *controls* more than the tests would give a false positive). An interesting result if it were true, but nonetheless a true positive by the spirit of it, so let me tweak my condition slightly: a positive result is *any* statistically significant (yada yada) difference between test and control groups' disease-related measures.

If prayer kills, well hell, that's just as good a result as far as I'm concerned.
 
So you say you are going to run this protocol, and if it turns up any differences at all then you are going to latch onto that as due to prayer from your pray-ers only. Is that correct?

I think you are still missing an essential and very basic point: Given your hypothesis, you have way too many uncontrolled variables to be able to make any reasonable judgements whatsoever about the effect of prayer.

Questions:

If you measure ANY difference between your test and control groups, what will make you absolutely sure that it was prayer from your pray-ers ALONE that made that difference?

If prayer equally affects both test and control groups, how do you differentiate that condition from it not affecting either of them at all (i.e. no effect)? What is your reference point to be able to say that anything at all happened due to prayer?

How do you know all prayer doesn't affect each and every one of us equally all the time? Or is it aimable? Can you "shield" prayer from a person?

How do you absolutely determine that your test pray-ers are the ONLY influence over physiological differences between test and control groups?
 
Or, of course, the pertinent question:

Why wasn't Pope John Paul II healed by the over 1 billion Catholics praying for his life?

A billion people, saizai? You can't ask for a better, stronger experimental setup: A 6th of the world's population, praying for just one person's health.

And yet, he croaked.
 
So you say you are going to run this protocol, and if it turns up any differences at all then you are going to latch onto that as due to prayer from your pray-ers only. Is that correct?

If you measure ANY difference between your test and control groups, what will make you absolutely sure that it was prayer from your pray-ers ALONE that made that difference?

How do you absolutely determine that your test pray-ers are the ONLY influence over physiological differences between test and control groups?

Given that this is a controlled study (as I have already pointed out) and within the bounds of statistical significance, yes.

That's how you do a randomized double-blind study.

I do not need to care about whether variables I am not *specifically* controlling could hypothetically influence results, because as I have already stated - and you have failed to address - any such effect would be evenly distributed between control and test groups, and therefore not affect the outcome in any way.

Given your hypothesis, you have way too many uncontrolled variables to be able to make any reasonable judgements whatsoever about the effect of prayer.

I replied to that assertion and gave what I consider to be an airtight argument against it. You have neither rebutted my argument on its merits, nor answered any of the challenge questions I gave in response.

If prayer equally affects both test and control groups, how do you differentiate that condition from it not affecting either of them at all (i.e. no effect)? What is your reference point to be able to say that anything at all happened due to prayer?

I do not. As far as I am concerned, that is a negative result, as what I am asking is whether prayer has a differential effect on the targeted recipient. I believe I was quite clear on that point.

How do you know all prayer doesn't affect each and every one of us equally all the time? Or is it aimable? Can you "shield" prayer from a person?

Again, this is irrelevant. If it is uniform as you hypothesize, then this would be equivalent to the point above. Since this is a double-blind study, nobody would be able to selectively target people in it for "shielding" by whether they are controls or not; thus whether one can do so, and whether anyone would try to do so, is completely moot.


Frankly, your objections seem to demonstrate a lack of understanding of what constitutes a valid design for randomized double-blind trials.

You have repeatedly claimed that I have "uncontrolled variables" (ones which, it seems, you attribute to the purpose of the experiment rather than its design per se - an argument you cannot logically make unless you assume that there is some non-mundane mechanism that would make remote healing work in the first place). I repeatedly explained: these are all controlled, via the randomizing. To prove me wrong, you would need to prove how any or all of your claimed "uncontrolled variables" would differentially affect the control vs. test groups. You have not done so.

Unless you have something to say that addresses the responses I have already given for them - whether to challenge my logic or to answer *my* challenge questions - I will consider this particular avenue of argument closed.
 

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