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Remote healing

saizai said:
If you are making a serious claim that randomization is not reliable to account for uncontrolled variables (such as blinded third party interference), then I am forced to conclude that you have little interest in actual experimental design, or are purely interested in taking a combative stance - i.e. being a troll.

Was this directed at me?


And, as to your last post - I will state again - you are not testing for the AMOUNT of sugar/prayer ... you are merely testing for the presence of it - in whatever amount it occurs.

Plus, as I tried to explain - you cannot guarantee that either group will have one cube more sugar, unless the initial amount has been CONTROLLED.
 
Here's a simple first version for those of you with graphing calculators or equivalent capable of doing this (written in TI-82 psuedocode):

x<-0
y<-0 ; counters

repeat z
x+= rand()*10
y+= rand()*10 ; <- 10 is purely arbitrary; replace with anything you like
end repeat

output (x - y)

You will notice that the output goes to 0 as z increases.

Rand() for a computer draws from one string of random numbers - essentially this procedure is equivalent to picking one person at a time from the random list each time it's called.
 
cabby said:
Was this directed at me?

Partially. Mainly Larsen & SezMe.

And, as to your last post - I will state again - you are not testing for the AMOUNT of sugar/prayer ... you are merely testing for the presence of it - in whatever amount it occurs. [/B]

No, I am most certainly NOT.

I am testing whether that sugar cube I add with my ninja stealth powers - in the experiment, whether I assign someone to (double-blindly) pray for them - has a measurable affect on their health (= their health, in the experiment).

I do not give a damn how much other prayer they have had; that is not what I am testing. I am only comparing whether the group I give a cube to do any differently than the ones I ignore.
 
The strongest argument you can make is that every healer lies every time, and no prayer is done as a direct result of the study (or IOW the test group will not receive statistically more prayer than the controls). This, then, would produce a null case of difference between groups - i.e. solely their status within the study itself, since they would in no way be treated differently. This is not a confound.

No, Sai, the strongest argument I can make is that some healers may lie some of the time, or be distracted some of the time, or give partial prayers some of the time, and then not record their "treatments" accurately some of the time.

And others may lie all of the time, or be distracted all of the time, or offer partial prayers all of the time, and then not record their "treatments" accurately all of the time.

And others may honestly and honorably pray all the time, with full concentration all the time, offering full prayers all the time, and then accurately record their "treatments" all the time.

And neither you nor the JREF will have any way of knowing who receives what treatment because you have no controls or observers in place.

You have offered no commentary on this other than to say you would encourage people to be honest and all you can ask is that people do their best. Your only control is trust.

Trust.

Have you read anything in the application forum, the rules, the FAQs, Randi's commentaries, or any of Randi's writings to make you think the JREF accepts "trust" or a person's word or unobserved treatments as an acceptable protocol for The Challenge?

If you really think you have covered all of the bases and that your methodology is sound, then go ahead and make an official application. But don't be surprised if trust doesn't cut it.

Gayle

ETA: the all-the- time honest pray-ers.
 
Gayle said:
Your only control is trust.

Not at all.

My control is that the amount they are prayed for as a result of my actions must be somewhere between 0 (assuming everyone cops out) and 1 (= the amount I assign).

The amount that the controls are prayed for as a result of my actions is, by definition, 0.

Therefore, you are comparing a control group which has not been prayed for as a result of this, and a test group which *has* - barring the small possibility of a full copout.

As I state above, the actions of anyone else in praying for them is randomized between the two groups and thus not a factor.

As I said: the fact that I am checking at all is purely superfluous. If you want to, you can elimintae it altogether, and merely go by this: do I ask them to be prayed for, or not?

This cuts the praying people out of the picture altogether - they have no contact with the recipients, and therefore no mundane-world possibility of affecting their health. What I happen to ask them to do is wholly irrelevant. All you end up testing is whether my asking them - whatever that means - vs. ignoring a case because it is a control group member - has an effect on their health.

Please tell me how this in any way allows trust to enter into the calculation of whether the two groups differ in their overall scores for patient health.
 
saizai said:
Are you kidding me?

Have you taken any elementary math?

You do not need to know the baseline amounts in any way, nor do you need to care about any random interference from third parties. All of that is made irrelevant by the fact that you are randomly choosing people to receive an extra cube of sugar.

Those people you choose will, as a group average, have that one cube extra.

If you don't believe me, please go talk to a math professor.

I can translate this into actual math, though frankly doing so is a pain. I find it very difficult to believe that you consider yourself a rationalist (do you?) and are not willing to accept such a basic precept.

Go read some articles on randomization in study design. There are plenty.

No. You need to do the math. You need to show why your claim is valid.

saizai said:
Here's a simple first version for those of you with graphing calculators or equivalent capable of doing this (written in TI-82 psuedocode):

x<-0
y<-0 ; counters

repeat z
x+= rand()*10
y+= rand()*10 ; <- 10 is purely arbitrary; replace with anything you like
end repeat

output (x - y)

You will notice that the output goes to 0 as z increases.

Rand() for a computer draws from one string of random numbers - essentially this procedure is equivalent to picking one person at a time from the random list each time it's called.

You got to be kidding. This is what you call "statistics"?

Get real. Show us the math.

Everything else is bull. Put up or shut up.
 
I'm sorry, but I stop at having to reprove the entirety of mathematics and study design.

If you can't be bothered even to know such elemental parts that you say I need to "prove" that randomization normalizes between groups - the foundation of "scientific method" experimentation - then I have to consider you a troll.

Incidentally: please show me how you would purport to determine the effectiveness of a new medicine - penicillin, let's say - on curing something.

Without using the method I just described.

If you cannot do this, then you have no claim as being the "rationalist" here, unless you take skepticism as merely being a license to say "prove that!" all the way down to 1+1=2.
 
saizai said:
I'm sorry, but I stop at having to reprove the entirety of mathematics and study design.

If you can't be bothered even to know such elemental parts that you say I need to "prove" that randomization normalizes between groups - the foundation of "scientific method" experimentation - then I have to consider you a troll.

Incidentally: please show me how you would purport to determine the effectiveness of a new medicine - penicillin, let's say - on curing something.

Without using the method I just described.

If you cannot do this, then you have no claim as being the "rationalist" here, unless you take skepticism as merely being a license to say "prove that!" all the way down to 1+1=2.

Nobody is asking you to reprove the entirety of mathematics and study design. All you are asked to do is provide the calculations.

Since you can't do that, after repeatedly being asked to do that, I am completely unimpressed.

You should realize that nobody here is impressed with posturing or grand claims. Nor are we frightened or intimidated by assurances that your experiment is solid and sound.

You provide evidence of your claims. Put up or shut up.
 
Finally, a refinement in the design!

If you are making a serious claim that randomization is not reliable to account for uncontrolled variables (such as blinded third party interference), then I am forced to conclude that you have little interest in actual experimental design, or are purely interested in taking a combative stance - i.e. being a troll.

If you can't be bothered even to know such elemental parts that you say I need to "prove" that randomization normalizes between groups - the foundation of "scientific method" experimentation - then I have to consider you a troll.

That's rude, Sai. There is more -- much more -- to experimental design than randomization. Calling experienced forum members who disagree with your design trolls isn't going to advance your cause.

As I said: the fact that I am checking at all is purely superfluous. If you want to, you can elimintae it altogether, and merely go by this: do I ask them to be prayed for, or not?

Checking to see if the "healing" is delivered is purely superfluous.

You are willing to eliminate the "treatments" altogether and reduce your claim to: do I ask them to be prayed for, or not?

All you are testing is whether or not the act of Sai asking for them to be prayed for has an impact on their health.

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. You are not testing the power of prayer, but the power of Sai asking for prayer.

In other words, you are claiming that you, Sai, possess the paranormal power of distant healing via asking for prayers and that it is purely superfluous whether or not anyone actually prays for the subjects.

In your application, randomization will control for how many sugar cubes of prayer each subject actually receives and, therefore, the actual number of cubes is irrelevent.

Your claim, purified and refined, comes down to: "do I ask them to be prayed for, or not?"

Sai asks, and sick people receive.

That's what you want to test. You finally made yourself clearly understood. Thank you.

That oughta be worth a million bucks if it works. Go for it.
 
Re: Finally, a refinement in the design!

Gayle said:
That's rude, Sai. There is more -- much more -- to experimental design than randomization. Calling experienced forum members who disagree with your design trolls isn't going to advance your cause.

I draw the line at requiring me to prove the validity of random assignment - the fundamental underpinning of experimental design.

Perhaps you are willing to entertain skepticism on this point?


Checking to see if the "healing" is delivered is purely superfluous.

You are willing to eliminate the "treatments" altogether and reduce your claim to: do I ask them to be prayed for, or not?

All you are testing is whether or not the act of Sai asking for them to be prayed for has an impact on their health.

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. You are not testing the power of prayer, but the power of Sai asking for prayer.

In other words, you are claiming that you, Sai, possess the paranormal power of distant healing via asking for prayers and that it is purely superfluous whether or not anyone actually prays for the subjects.

In your application, randomization will control for how many sugar cubes of prayer each subject actually receives and, therefore, the actual number of cubes is irrelevent.

Your claim, purified and refined, comes down to: "do I ask them to be prayed for, or not?"

Sai asks, and sick people receive.

That's what you want to test. You finally made yourself clearly understood. Thank you.

That oughta be worth a million bucks if it works. Go for it. [/B]

First, let me correct your misquote: not that the "healing delivered" is superfluous to track, but that whether or not the people involved actually pray or not is.

I do hope you are not deliberately misunderstanding what I have said. I claim no personal powers whatsoever.

I merely am saying that my interaction with the pray-ers - that is, the entire part of the study that takes place behind the randomized double blind - is something that mundane accounts cannot distinguish from the null case.

IOW, there is no way for you to give a mundane reason why there would be a difference between the random assignment of recipients into control and test groups as discussed above, with my:
a) merely noting this fact (via computer), or
b) using this fact to then carry out the entire part of the experiment that is behind the blind - namely, whether and how people are assigned to pray for the recipient in the manner described.

I am not claiming that my act of asking them does anything, just that it is indistinguishable from a mundane-only perspective - and thus that it is pointless for you to argue about any of your perceived design flaws (which I refute as I already have) that occur in this portion of the experiment.

As I've said before, for example: any claim you make about a design flaw that involves third parties praying (blind) for anyone in the experiment necessarily involves the paranormal. As someone arguing for the nonexistence thereof, you don't get to make such an argument - you have to stick purely to rational explanations of potential confounds.
 
Am I jumping the gun?

SWISS CHARD PURSES WITH SAUSAGE STUFFING

5 cups cubed (1-inch) day-old bread (from a baguette or country loaf)
2 cups whole milk
2 large leeks, outer leaves removed and cut lengthwise into 25 (12- by 1/4-inch) strips, then remaining white and pale green parts chopped (2 cups)
4 1/2 tablespoons extra-virgin olive oil
1 lb bulk sausage (sweet Italian or breakfast sausage)
2 lb large green Swiss chard leaves, stems trimmed flush with leaves and then finely chopped and leaves left whole
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon black pepper
2 large eggs, lightly beaten
1/2 cup reduced-sodium chicken broth
Make stuffing:
Soak bread cubes in milk in a large bowl until softened, 20 to 30 minutes. Squeeze out milk, discarding it, then crumble bread into bowl.

Wash chopped leeks well in a bowl of cold water, agitating them to loosen any grit, then lift out and transfer to a sieve to drain.

Heat 1 tablespoon oil in a 12-inch heavy skillet over moderately high heat until hot but not smoking. Crumble sausage into skillet and brown, breaking up lumps with a fork, about 3 minutes. Transfer sausage with a slotted spoon to bowl with bread. Add 2 tablespoons oil to skillet, then sauté chopped leek, chard stems, 1/4 teaspoon salt, and 1/4 teaspoon pepper, stirring frequently, until vegetables are tender and just beginning to brown, 10 to 15 minutes. Stir vegetables into bread mixture, then cool until warm, about 15 minutes. Stir remaining 1/4 teaspoon salt and remaining 1/4 teaspoon pepper into eggs, then stir eggs into bread mixture.

Prepare leek ribbons and chard leaves:
Wash leek strips, then blanch in a large pot of boiling salted water , uncovered, 2 minutes and transfer with tongs to a bowl of ice and cold water (reserve water in pot). Transfer to a colander and drain well, then transfer to paper towels and pat dry. Blanch chard leaves in water just until wilted, about 30 seconds, and transfer with a slotted spoon to ice water to cool. Drain chard leaves in colander.

Make purses:
Put oven rack in middle position and preheat oven to 350°F.

Spread 1 chard leaf on a work surface, using smaller leaves to patch any holes if necessary. Chard-leaf wrapper should be about 8 by 5 inches (if it's smaller, overlap several small leaves to form a larger wrapper; don't worry if wrapper is larger than 8 by 5). Mound 1/4 cup stuffing in center, then gather chard up over filling to form a purse and tie closed with a leek strip. (You have extra strips in case some break.) Make 19 more purses in same manner.

Oil a 3-quart gratin or other shallow baking dish. Stand purses upright in dish and drizzle with remaining 1 1/2 tablespoons oil. Add broth to dish and cover purses with a sheet of wax paper or parchment, then loosely cover with foil. Bake purses until stuffing is warmed through and egg is set (cut one open on bottom to check), 35 to 40 minutes.
 
Gayle -

Thank you for your kind contribution of the "swiss chard purses with sausage stuffing" recipe to this thread. I am sure that everyone will see how it constitutes a brilliant resolution to the outstanding debates on the thread.

Sadly, I am vegetarian. Do you have a modified version that I can eat?

Thanks.
 
saizai said:
Gayle -

Thank you for your kind contribution of the "swiss chard purses with sausage stuffing" recipe to this thread. I am sure that everyone will see how it constitutes a brilliant resolution to the outstanding debates on the thread.

Sadly, I am vegetarian. Do you have a modified version that I can eat?

Thanks.

How about those calculations?
 
saizai said:
No, I am most certainly NOT.

I am testing whether that sugar cube I add with my ninja stealth powers - in the experiment, whether I assign someone to (double-blindly) pray for them - has a measurable affect on their health (= their health, in the experiment).

I do not give a damn how much other prayer they have had; that is not what I am testing. I am only comparing whether the group I give a cube to do any differently than the ones I ignore.

If you want to determine the efficacy of prayer in healing, you need to compare a group that received prayer vs. a group that did not receive prayer. You cannot compare a group that received some prayer against a group that received more prayer because there is no way to empirically quantify prayer. For all you know, any prayer may be efficacious. If you cannot ensure that your control group receives absolutely no prayer, your experiment is useless.
 
Gr8wight -

Sorry, again, but you're wrong.

The question is: Does being chosen for being prayed for as a result of this study change health outcomes or no?

It's really very simple. And completely comparable.

Any speculations on your part about the efficacy of prayer, whether it is binary, etc. are purely speculations. Your argument only is valid *if* you assume that prayer is binary - that is, that anyone else praying for these people would render any "extra" prayer moot.

But you're not allowed to make assumptions like that, since you're playing the skeptic. And even so, it does not rule out the possibility for additive prayer. Nor even binary, since there are likely some people in both groups who are *not* being prayed for by a third party, and only would be as a result of the study.

To put it shortly: your argument presupposes your worldview. Mine does not.

And you have no way of supporting yours without recourse to the supernatural.
 
saizai said:
Gr8wight -

Sorry, again, but you're wrong.

The question is: Does being chosen for being prayed for as a result of this study change health outcomes or no?

It's really very simple. And completely comparable.

Any speculations on your part about the efficacy of prayer, whether it is binary, etc. are purely speculations. Your argument only is valid *if* you assume that prayer is binary - that is, that anyone else praying for these people would render any "extra" prayer moot.
But since we do not know if prayer is binary, additative, multiplicative or obeys some tensor calculus, the study design has to account for these possibilities. One possibility is "binary" Thus Gr8wight's post has merit and your rejoinder does not address the issue.
 
saizai said:
Gr8wight -

Sorry, again, but you're wrong.

The question is: Does being chosen for being prayed for as a result of this study change health outcomes or no?

It's really very simple. And completely comparable.

Any speculations on your part about the efficacy of prayer, whether it is binary, etc. are purely speculations. Your argument only is valid *if* you assume that prayer is binary - that is, that anyone else praying for these people would render any "extra" prayer moot.

But you're not allowed to make assumptions like that, since you're playing the skeptic. And even so, it does not rule out the possibility for additive prayer. Nor even binary, since there are likely some people in both groups who are *not* being prayed for by a third party, and only would be as a result of the study.

To put it shortly: your argument presupposes your worldview. Mine does not.

And you have no way of supporting yours without recourse to the supernatural.

You are so far out in left field, you can no longer see the batter.

example: (using a ridiculously small sample size) Bob receives prayer during your study from a group of 12 people. Tom does not receive any prayer from your study. Do either Bob or Tom receive any prayer from outside your test group? You have absolutely no idea, and no way of finding out without unblinding the experiment by asking them explicitly. Maybe Bob receives no additional prayer, but maybe Tom receives prayer from the entire congregation of his church, 150-200 people. How is Tom's group 'controlled?' It is entirely possible that, acounting for all prayer sources, every member of your test group and of your control group receive exactly the same amount of prayer. But you don't know, because you have absolutely no way of knowing. How can you draw any results from your data if you do not know, can not know, the comparison between how much prayer your test group received compared to how much prayer your control group received?

Even if you attempted to control the study by requesting the friends and family of the control group not to pray for thier loved ones, how successful do you think that would be? How many friends and loved ones, who desired to pray, could be convinced not to. You cannot draw meaningful conclusions from a study when you do not know the values of all the variables. Indeed, when you do not even know what all the variables might be.
 
Version two

The question of what disease to target is still an open one. I've yet to hear any suggestions...

Changes: more specifics, the addition & elaboration of the selection-bias prevention step, and dropping the use of information as a controlled variable (since I can't think of an explanation that would have getting more information make the results worse, and some worldviews by which the opposite would be true, I'm assigning it as a baseline).

Enjoy.

One clarification: for the purposes of the challenge, all of part one is considered to be irrelevant. The only part that is actually under question is part two, measured as described.

Of course, JREF is welcome to be involved through the entire course of the study if it so desires.

[copying current version of the design draft below]

---------------------------------------------------------

A new study on remote healing - DRAFT
Sai Emrys, 8/13/05

Summary

There have been studies done before on the efficacy of prayer. They have, however, often suffered from some important flaws that render them nearly useless for answering the two main initial questions on the topic: does it work, and if so, how can it be made to work better? (The question of how it works is obviously a rather more difficult one, and in no way addressed by this.)

Previous studies have made mistakes:
• being too vulnerable to a purely “placebo effect” explanation;
• having far too small a sample size to be worth anything statistically;
• having significant breaches of double-blind;
• not tracking potentially important variables that can then be pointed to as confounds;
• not being controlled, or being purely retrospective;
• admitting numerous biases - primarily selection bias - for the measurements;
• having unmeasurable results.

The number of studies that manage not to have one (or many) of these flaws is simply too few. So, I want to run a study that will address this.

First, I want to be clear on what this study is designed to examine: remote prayer. “Remote healing” is a more accurate but less intuitive description. Simply put, it will measure whether – and if yes, how much – people with serious illnesses are affected by people praying for them, in a remote location, having no communication between the two sets of subjects. More specifically, it will only address the question of whether the prayer that occurs as a result of this study has any impact; see below for details.

There is no anticipated possibility of harm to any participant – except perhaps religious self-doubt in the event that prayer does not work for the purposes of this experiment. No participants or researchers will be remunerated in any way. Any participant is free to abandon the experiment at any time they wish by notifying the researcher; any data from their participation will be removed from the experiment, and they will not be involved in any further trials.

Any donations will go towards covering costs of running this study. Any excess remaining at the end of the study will be donated to Médecins sans Frontiers.

Review of previous attempts

(pending completion of literature research)
Procedure

People involved

The recipients will be a group of people drawn from various hospitals, who all have similar, serious, terminal conditions. They will be asked to answer a short survey (demographics, views on religion, etc. – see below), give informed consent to participating in the study, and choose how they want their information to be used. In no event will they know whether they were selected to be prayed for or not, or by whom, unless they abandon the study or the study comes to an end; nor will their doctors.

Potential disease candidates include: late-stage AIDS; cancer; etc. Ideally, the condition chosen will be something that has some chance of cure or spontaneous remission; few acute (vs. ongoing) medical treatments; low life expectancy (~50%); and easily rated progress. Having a moderate amount of various trackable characteristics – e.g. pain, typical days spent in hospital, typical quality-of-life ratings, etc. – will make observing any change as a result of the study be easier.

The healers (as a generic and semantically unambiguous form of “pray-ers”) will be drawn from various religious groups, preferably spread across the world and from a diverse pool of religious beliefs and practices. Each will be assigned to pray for one recipient at a time (and each recipient will have one or zero people assigned to pray for them), once a week, for six weeks. They will be asked to keep a log – to verify that they did in fact carry out their duties – and of course to note any particular unusual events or experiences they wish to record.

Each healer would be given personally unidentifiable but personalizing information about their assigned recipient, such as demographics; first name; general location (e.g. state); detailed description of their diagnosis; and if possible, photo and detailed updates on the recipient’s status, to the extent that these are available.

Overall procedure:

All patients will be tracked as to the course of their disease, their symptoms, etc. (See below.)

This preliminary study will be run in two parts. Each part will involve at least 50 “healers” – or whatever portion thereof remain, if participants drop out and are not replaced – praying, one time a week for four weeks each, in succession, for at least four “recipients”. (I.e. recipient A for one month, then recipient B for one month, etc.)

The first part will involve four subgroups under the main “test” group (informed x directed, as described below), and will not have a predefined outcome measure. It will be used solely to determine what an optimal outcome measure would be.

Part one:

Each recipient will be randomly placed into one of two groups: control (50%), and test (50%). The test group will be further split into two equal parts: directed and undirected. (These latter groups do not affect the central question of whether prayer works at all; all of them will receive an equal amount of prayer, just in different ways. They are there solely as a speculative inclusion from the results of other studies, to be used as below.)

Those in the “directed” group will have their healer instructed to pray for specific benefits. E.g., for the cure of their disease, reduction in pain, prolongation of life, and general happiness etc. Those in the “undirected” group will have their healer instructed to pray in a purely general way: e.g. along the lines of “may God’s (Universe / Mother’s / etc) will be done”. This will stay the same for any particular recipient, but will change – 50-50 – for each healer.

Each “healer” would be assigned to two recipients from both of these groups, in blocks. (i.e. two of one, then two of the other.) The order will be randomized – half of the healers will be instructed to “directed” first, the other half “undirected”.

Health measurements taken from the beginning of the study until one month after the end of this phase, will be used to decide which of the four trial groups appears to show the best result, and what combination and weighting of tracked disease statistics produces the greatest difference between control and test groups. This may include items such as subjective symptom reports, doctor prognoses, days in hospital, money spent on treatment, survival length, etc.

This “data massage” will be at the discretion of the researcher. (One alternative to choosing a fixed option on directedness would be to direct “healers” to use whichever they are more used to / attracted to. This preference would be polled, to determine if there is any crossover effect between healer preference and the direction given.)

The recipients and/or healers may also be trimmed by particular properties, if this is determined to have a significant benefit to the effect gained – e.g. by only using those of a certain religion, experience level, praying style, belief in prayer, etc. That is, these traits would become selection criteria for participating in the second part of the study. This will, again, only be done if it is expected (based on part one data) that doing so will increase the effect.

In any event, the final measure decided upon will be a single, numeric expression per “recipient”, based solely upon specific data gathered about their health condition, and with clear admission criteria for both recipients and healers.

Thus ends the complicated part. There will be a two month (or longer, if necessary to process data) pause in the study to give the researcher time to compile existing data and determine optimal measures, instructions, etc., to use for the second part.

Part two:

Crucially, the second part will involve one trial group – that is, there will be no controlled variables other than the 50-50 split of controls vs. non-controls, which is newly and randomly assigned from an “untouched” pool of recipients. All healers will be given the same instructions – that is, either to engage in directed, non-directed, or by-preference prayer (as determined in part one). The measure fixed upon at the end of part one will be used to judge the data from part two, and will in no event be modified after the commencement of part two. Lastly, all data from part one – that is, all data that went into determining what measure to use – will be discarded.

Preferably, part two will last longer and involve more participants. This would be determined by resource and practicality constraints, however; the minimum would be the same as for part 1 – 50 people praying for 4 recipients each, for one month each, with each recipient being assigned zero or one healers.


The measure determined at the end of part one would then be applied to the information gathered from part two. This will be used as the basis for determining whether there is a statistically significant difference between the control and test groups.


All participants will be required to sign a release which:
• states their understanding of the facts presented in this document, and willingness to participate;
• swears that all information they provide is true to the best of their knowledge; and
• describes wishes in regard to the disclosure of their confidential information (e.g. being released to their paired partner, to other researchers, to media inquiries, etc.).

That’s it, really. If recipients and healers mutually wish to have their contact info released to each other, they will be introduced; if not, not. Everyone will get a copy of the overall results, as well as a copy of the results of their own trials.




Potential confounds & arguments against validity

1. It is possible that prayer does not work, for some essential reason, when it is under study in this manner.
This, and all other apologist arguments in the same vein, is by definition not controllable. If prayer does indeed have such a limitation, then this study is moot; if not, then it is not a concern.

2. It is possible – probable even – that “recipients” will be prayed for by people other than their assigned “healers”.
This variable – and all other otherwise uncontrolled variables – is controlled by the process of randomization; there is no reason why it would be different between the control and test groups. It will, however, be tracked – by polling the recipients as to whether they, or people they know of, will be praying for their betterment. It is expected that this measure will be statistically equal between groups, as with other statistics such as average age, gender distribution, etc.

3. Falsification on the part of participants, e.g. “healers” not carrying out their assigned duties
The only effect this can have on the outcome of the study is to result in a false negative, or in a result that is smaller than might otherwise be produced. Given the practical difficulties that would be involved in doing anything but taking people at their word – and the fact that this could in no way produce a false positive – this will be ignored.

4. “Data mining”, a.k.a. selection bias
The dual tier design shields the development of admission criteria, health measure, etc., from tainting the results. Once these criteria are determined, they will be final; since they are determined before the obtainment of any data that goes into the final results, there is no opportunity for selection bias.

5. Significance
As this is intended solely to be a preliminary, exploratory study, a statistical significance of 95% or higher (p<0.05) will be considered a positive outcome.

A result – that is, a statistically significant difference between the average scores in the control vs. test groups – at that level, of any magnitude, will be considered justification for a full study of identical design as the second part, with a new set of “recipients” and “healers”, and with a significantly larger pool of participants.

6. Violation of double-blind
For the nitpicker: provision of personal information about the recipient to the healer could be considered a breach of complete double-blinding. However, one would be required to come up with an explanation of how this would have an effect on the patient despite the total lack of communication path from healer to recipient – something not possible except by admitting the existence of a non-mundane means of communication between the two. Thus, this can be considered a moot point.

Information Tracked

Info gathered on recipient:
• General:
o Name
o Random ID number
o Random confirmation number (disclosed only to recipient)
o Demographics
ï‚§ Gender
ï‚§ Age / date of birth
ï‚§ Religion
• Type
• Fervency / activity
• Length of time practicing
o This religion
o Anything seriously
ï‚§ Socioeconomics
• Ethnicity
• Income
• Parents’ income
ï‚§ Location
o Picture
o Belief in the efficacy of prayer
o Recipient of prayer otherwise
ï‚§ Self-prayer
• Frequency
• Style
• Length
ï‚§ Known recipient (e.g. church, family)
• Ditto
o Personality (intro/extroversion etc)
• Disease
o Prognosis at start (e.g. expected survival rate, life expectancy, etc)
o Dated progress notes
o Numeric measures
ï‚§ Amount of meds used by type (e.g. anesthetics)
ï‚§ # days in hospital
 # “incidents” (positive or negative)
ï‚§ Self-reported pain / quality-of-life scores
ï‚§ $ spent in treatment
ï‚§ Doctor skill (e.g. # years practicing medicine)
ï‚§ Length of survival

Info gathered on healer:
• Same demographics etc
• Usual praying style
o Directed / undirected
o Ritual / group / appeal to ___ / …
o Duration of one “prayer”
• Status as a celebrity or professional related to remote healing in any way (e.g. reiki practioner, “psychic”, monk, professional priest, etc.)
o Years claiming this

Variables:
• Prayed for or not
• Directed vs. undirected prayer

Variables to try controlled testing later:
• # times prayed for (1 vs. 8)
• Personal information about recipient given to healer (e.g. name, gender, age, photo, detailed description of current problem / past history, status updates, general location, vs. minimal)
• Religion / method of healer
• Religion / belief in remote healing (“prayer”) of recipient
• IF measuring against an event (e.g. surgery):
o Synchronization WRT prayer (i.e., before, after, during, etc)


Use of Information – Privacy Policy

There are three classes of information gathered on participants in this study: not personally identifiable, personalizing, and confidential. They are treated differently, as below.

Not personally identifiable information includes all medical information about a particular trial when associated only with an ID number (and the ID number itself), and all aggregated information about participants by category (e.g. average age, gender proportions, etc). This information may be used and released freely; there shall be no restriction on their use.

Personalizing information is that which is given to the healers about their assigned recipients. That is, basic demographics, first name (NOT last), physical description, full diagnosis, location (no more specific than state), and (if available) photo and detailed status updates. This will only be released (under condition of non-disclosure) to the assigned healer.

All other information will be considered confidential. Such information – e.g. full name, contact information, etc. – will only be released with the explicit consent of the participant involved. If both “recipient” and “healer” in a particular trial indicate a wish to have contact with each other, they will be given each others’ contact information at the end of the study, or when either decides to abandon the study.

Of course, the recipient may not know anything about their status in the study – e.g. whether they are in the control or test groups, or anything about the “healer” assigned to them if there is one – until the study is over. Likewise for the “healer”, aside from the clause above.
 
SezMe said:
But since we do not know if prayer is binary, additative, multiplicative or obeys some tensor calculus, the study design has to account for these possibilities. One possibility is "binary" Thus Gr8wight's post has merit and your rejoinder does not address the issue.

Not at all. As I say, I make no attempt and have no desire to go to anything about the (speculated) mechanism of the effect. To do so, one would need to assume a particular theological framework - which I decline to do.

You seem to be under a false impression of what I am claiming. I make no claim whatsoever as to the nature of prayer per se, nor to the existence or lack thereof of multiple forms, agencies, etc.

All I am claiming as consituting a positive result (and the lack constituting negative) is a statistically significant difference between my control and test groups, run as described.

I am not interested in entertaining speculations about how prayer might function, except if they are in the form of a suggestion for how my design might be changed to *encompass* other forms that it is currently not capable of testing, such as the binary hypothesis.

That I do not test *all* forms of prayer is no argument that I am not testing *this* form, which is all I am claiming.
 

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