Religulous

[Marcus]

I really should be collecting these. I wonder do the "Christians are stupid" people operate on that basis out in The Real World?

Well, no. Can't go around insulting friends and relatives just because they hold irrational beliefs. The principal doesn't hold for some Christians, though. It seems atheists are fair game, since they are of course evil, mean, and damned.

 

[Marcus]

There was a whole thread on atheist vs agnostic, and it really boiled down to semantics. My own definition is simple. If I ask someone "Do you believe God exists?" and they answer "no" then in my mind they are an atheist.

 

[Yoink]

Religions describe specific gods that can be accepted or rejected on their own merits. When you start talking about some undefined, incomprehensible force or whatever that might have created the Universe, that isn't religion.

It's a lot like what many self-described "religious" people hold their "religion" to be.

When I say I'm an atheist, I'm not talking about a wildly speculative possibility that can't be defined. I'm claiming that there certainly is no god as spelled out by Jews/Christians/Muslims or any religion that claims it has the answers.

If you say "certainly no" then you are making a claim based on faith, not reason. If you say "there is simply no good reason for me to accept the hypothesis of such a god's existence" you are making a reasonable (and, in my view, atheistic) claim.

Just because we don't know how or why the Universe began doesn't mean we can't outright reject fanciful inventions for it.

Again, it depends what you mean by "outright reject." If you mean "reject the idea that it is worth spending any serious amount of time or resources exploring this hypothesis" then you're on solid ground. If you mean "reject even the hypothetical possibility that the invention may in fact describe something like the truth" then you are, again, adopting a position of faith, not reason.

By the way, Skepticgirl is right about one thing--this argument is something of a threadjack, so we should take it to the "I lack belief in god" thread that she linked to.

 

[westprog]

Well, no. Can't go around insulting friends and relatives just because they hold irrational beliefs. The principal doesn't hold for some Christians, though.

No, it doesn't. That isn't, IMO, a good reason for adding to the total of dumb things said.

 

[bobcarp]

Well, no. Can't go around insulting friends and relatives just because they hold irrational beliefs. The principal doesn't hold for some Christians, though. It seems atheists are fair game, since they are of course evil, mean, and damned.

Atheists in the religion world are like Native American Indians in the socio-world. You can’t insult blacks, whites, Asians, Latinos, Polish, middle-easterners, etc., but it doesn’t seem to apply to NA Indians (eg Washington Redskins, Atlanta Braves, Cleveland Indians). How’bout those Aberdeen Atheists!

 

[Mister Agenda]

I was going to see it with Godless Columbia today, but alas, it isn't showing in Columbia. The nearest venue I could find was 2 hours away. I'm off to see 'Burn After Reading'.

 

[Dunstan]

There was a whole thread on atheist vs agnostic, and it really boiled down to semantics. My own definition is simple. If I ask someone "Do you believe God exists?" and they answer "no" then in my mind they are an atheist.

That's my test, too.

If they answer "yes," then they are some variety of theist.

If they answer "maybe," then they are an agnostic. (And yes, I know that is not a universally accepted definition. Go away already.)

If they start quibbling about definitions of "God," "exists," and/or "believe," then I wander off in search of a beer.

(sorry for contributing to threadjack)

 

[Oliver]

Is it true? The movie won't be released in Germany because of a "lack of interest"?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0815241/releaseinfo

Release date for Germany: November 6th

Seems to me you just don't want to pay the ticket.

I live in a pretty rural area - it won't be shown due to lack
of interest. Obviously, it will be shown elsewhere here in
Germany - but you claiming I simply won't buy a ticket, is
not true. Thanks for the info, I will take a look if it will be
shown in one of the bigger Cinemas in my state.

 

[Rodibidably]

I just got back from seeing the movie, and I'd HIGHLY recommend it to all of my friends...

There are a few places I though Maher did not go far enough, but overall I think they did a GREAT job of infusing humor into a very serious subject.

If you find any of the fundamentalist variations of islam, christianity, lds, scientology, or judaism to be a bit *woo-woo*, and are not afraid of offending the beliefs of others, then this movie is one you'll enjoy.

 

[Pardalis]

I live in a pretty rural area - it won't be shown due to lack
of interest.

That's not what you said, you said it won't be shown in Germany. If it's not going to be shown in your rural area, it's probably not because of a lack of interest in the movie, but rather the distributor's lack of interest in your rural town, because of a lack of money and profitability. Stop making things up.

 

[Oliver]

That's not what you said, you said it won't be shown in Germany. If it's not going to be shown in your rural area, it's probably not because of a lack of interest in the movie, but rather the distributor's lack of interest in your rural town, because of a lack of money and profitability. Stop making things up.

Making what up? Yes, I was wrong about it's release. Will it be
shown all over Germany - a US-religious-Documentary from a
guy nobody knows over here? No. There is no target audience
for that type of entertainment. But what do I know about the
place I live and the movies being shown in cinemas?

 

[Pardalis]

But what do I know about the
place I live and the movies being shown in cinemas?

Apparently I know more than you do. Why don't you just admit you lied about Germany not showing the movie because of a "lack of interest" and deal with it, instead of making excuses?

 

[Oliver]

Apparently I know more than you do. Why don't you just admit you lied about Germany not showing the movie because of a "lack of interest" and deal with it, instead of making excuses?

The real question is: Why are you obsessed with me?
Just because something is released, doesn't mean it will be shown
in many cinemas. Or shown at all in any German cinema.

[And I checked it: it won't be shown in the next bigger cinema in my area.]

Which is still my point:

I most probably will have to wait for religulous being on GoogleVideo.
What about that don't you understand? - I mean: honestly.

 

[Pardalis]

I most probably will have to wait for religulous being on GoogleVideo. What about that don't you understand? - I mean: honestly.

You want to watch it for free. Honesty, at last.

 

[ravdin]

I saw the movie tonight and I give it high marks. I don't agree with Bill Maher on everything. But I completely agreed with his message at the end- we have given too much power to religious extremists with Bronze Age beliefs, and we need to step up and take it back. As he put it so well: Grow up or die.

I'd definitely recommend it to the JREF crowd. Go see it in the theater, too. Movies like this need your support.

 

[jimtron]

I read a NYT article about the film (not the review linked in the OP), and I have a few thoughts:

• From the article:

  “This is a very religious country,” he (Maher) said, ignoring for the moment that he was in Canada, where the movie played at the Toronto International Film Festival earlier this month. “I would at least like them” — meaning the 16 percent of Americans who in a recent poll by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life described themselves as “unaffiliated” with any religion — “to stand up and say we’re not the crazy ones. (snip) Mr. Maher is not quite accurate here. Of the 16 percent who told Pew researchers they were unaffiliated, only 4 percent said they were atheistic or agnostic; the others said they were “nothing in particular.” And even among disbelievers, 21 percent of atheists and 55 percent of agnostics said they believed in God.

  Bold added, because WTF?!@#$% 21 percent of atheists said they believe in god?

• (Maher speaking) “Anyone who’s religious is extremist. See, we’re just used to religion. It’s like what Matthew Arnold said about a tree. It’s not that there are no miracles. A tree is a miracle. You’re just used to it. And conversely religion is something we’re just used to. So the notion that God had a son, that he’s a single parent, and the son went on a suicide mission, and you’re drinking his blood on Sunday, that a man lived inside a whale and that the earth is 5,000 years old — all the essentials of religion that are in the Bible or the Koran — we’re used to them. But it doesn’t mean they’re not crazy, doesn’t mean they’re not ridiculous. And so to be religious at all is to be an extremist, is to be irrational.

  One problem with this argument: there are many Christians who are religious, but don't believe much of the Bible. There are Rabbis that don't believe in god (at least I know one). Religion bugs me, but I know many intelligent, sensible, people who are religous and not intolerant or stupid.

• The pickings are easy. Mr. Charles said they had hoped to interview major religious figures, including the pope, the president of the Mormon Church and the Dalai Lama. Instead they got members of the Truckers Chapel in Raleigh, N.C., the guy who plays Jesus at the Holy Land Experience theme park in Orlando, and an Islamic rapper named Propa-Gandhi.

I'm looking forward to seeing the movie, but I'm afraid it's going to make the argument against religion appear obnoxious and ill-informed. It seems as though Maher is resorting to at least one straw man argument. IOW, a lot of religious people might agree that it's dumb to believe in the Bible literally, etc., so they could say that Maher's argument is against religious idiocy, not religion in general, and they might be right.

 

[not_so_new]

I'd definitely recommend it to the JREF crowd. Go see it in the theater, too. Movies like this need your support.

I am a luke warm supporter of Maher. When he is talking politics I think he is usually logical.

When he is talking religion I tend to agree but I wish he were a little less forceful about it because it tends to give people a bad impression of my side of the debate. That said, I am happy that there are people on a national stage talking about the harm of religion.

Some of his other beliefs on the other hand frankly scare me b-jesus out of me (pun intended).

My partner and I are going to see Religulous for exactly the same reason above, movies like this need support. I suspect it will be funny while not to informative to a staunch atheist such as myself but given the relatively few offerings in this category I want to vote with my dollar.

In short, I am not going to benefit Maher, I am going to benefit atheism and I hope, rational thinking.

 

[Gurdur]

.... Maher does not believe in the Germ Theory of Medicine, and thinks all illness and disease is due to bad diet
He has called modern medicine more or less a giant fraud,including the old,old, "Pasteur took back the germ theory on his deathbed" malarky.....

Oh dear. And this is someone supposed to reveal in a film the woo of religion?

A living example of the adage that sometimes one's 'friends' are worse than one's enemies.

 

[KingMerv00]

Which is basically true.

It's about time someone took my bait. In response:

Religious people can be smart...duh.

 

[Brainache]

I'm not a big fan of Mr Maher, but I am a big fan of Larry Charles' work on Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm.

Not sure what kind of release it will have in Australia, but I hope I get a chance to watch it some day.