Religious conservatives vs. Secularists

[Bruce]

When you listen to left-wing secularists talk, you would swear that Amercia is headed for a theocracy, that Christians are a dominant force in society, that the Republicans are trampling on our freedoms, that GWB in imposing his religious views on a frightened public, and that Secularist are a humble , dying minority, being trampled by the Christian Juggernaut.

When you listen to right-wing religious conservatives, you would swear that secularism rules the country, that the media wontonly bashes the poor Christians for no good reason, that Christians are a dying breed, a shrinking minority in wake of the overwhelming Secularist movement, and the GWB is the last knight in an age that is soon to be forgotten.

The melodrama is nauseating.

What are your views? I'll share mine later. Goodnight.

 

[Mycroft]

I think both sides are nuts.

 

[RandFan]

When you listen to left-wing secularists talk, you would swear that Amercia is headed for a theocracy...

When you listen to right-wing religious conservatives, you would swear that secularism rules the country...

The melodrama is nauseating.

Perception is greater than reality. Emotion will move people more than logic and reason. Politicians know this and they know how to exploit peoples fears. It's cynical but it is just too true. Personally I can live with it. I respect poltics and understand human nature. Perhaps someday we will be less viscerell and less subject to manipulation by our politicians and those with political agendas.

The problem is that most people think that skewed propaganda is something the other side uses.

 

[username]

I think both sides are nuts.

Yeah, that is pretty much my view as well.

Both are true though, in a sense.

If you are a Christian conservative you are distraught over evolution being taught as "fact" when it is "only a theory".

You are distraught over abortion destroying "the sanctity of life" and gay marriage destroying "the sanctity of marriage".

If you are a secularist you are distraught over creationism being taught as science and court stacking designed to overturn Roe v Wade and "judicial activism" okaying "sexual perversions".

The US is a deeply divided nation as all recent national elections show.

As a result both the religionists and secularists have enough power to effect politics and legislation. When one side scores a victory the other side sees the end of life as they know it.

In the end though the secularists (reason)will win out. In the age of tolerance and science religious faith and superstitious bigotry are on the way out.

It is kind of odd that in the world today we are faced with dangers from Islamic extremists. We can read the neoconservatives (often Christian extremists) talk about how today's terrorism is the lasp gasp of an Islamic militantism that the Muslim population is losing tolerance for therefor they have resorted to violence and fear to hold on to some degree of power.

The neoconservatives seem blissfully unaware that they are using the same tactics for the same reasons.

 

[Bruce]

I'm with you guys.

I like to listen to Bill O'Reilly sometimes. I'll get to a point where I start to think, "Hey, Bill sure seems like a reasonable guy. Maybe he isn't as nutty as everyone says he is...." then he starts in on his rant about how the secularists are trying to destroy Christmas and succeeding.

Bill: "Did you know that malls across America have stopped using the word "Chistmas"? Has God really become this offensive? They're using terms like "Holiday Season" or "Winter Holidays". Anything but Christmas." (Rant, rant, rant) "...has caused church attendance to decline" (Rant, rant, rant) "all because of those immoral atheist pinheads...." (rant, rant, rant).

Excuse me Bill, but malls are in the business of selling products. Perhaps they have finally come to realize that many religions celebrate important holidays in the months of December and January. Perhaps they don't want to alienate those potential customers by focusing on a single religion? Just a thought...

Then there's the folks that think America is slanting towards a theocracy thanks to Bush. Gagh. Get over yourselves. I've never gotten the impression that GWB is pushing religion on us. In fact, he's probably the least imposing of all the presidents in history when it comes to religion. I just watched on the History channel that even FDR issued Bibles to all the troops and insisted that they read them. It's true that church attendance is lower now than it's ever been. Did anyone stop to think that maybe all those red states are voting Republican for reasons other than religion? Just a thought....

I'm just tired of "The sky is falling" mentality of all the political groups.

 

[RandFan]

I'm just tired of "The sky is falling" mentality of all the political groups.

Agreed. It seems that if we critical thinking were the norm we wouldn't see each other in such stark black and white terms. It's kind of like the high school spirit mentality where your team is number 1. "We're #1...YEAH!!!!"

It gets old.

 

[corplinx]

On one hand you have the neopuritans with their persecution complex and on the other you have the neo-commies who want to sanitize the zeitgeist and have a similar persecution mindset.

Whaddya gonna do?

 

[RandFan]

On one hand you have the neopuritans with their persecution complex and on the other you have the neo-commies who want to sanitize the zeitgeist and have a similar persecution mindset.

Whaddya gonna do?

Join la résistance and start a revolution. Our guide

 

[Orwell]

I think you're being complacent about the religious nutters. When it comes to these people, I believe it is better to be safe than sorry, man!

 

[clarsct]

I am, as well, very wary of religious fanaticism in the US. We do have a history of jumping the shark at times....Salem is but an example..

However, I also have a very wary stance towards "the sky is falling" folks, too.

And, to add to the mix, I have very scant faith in the better side of human nature. A bit cynical, I know..but I'm a recovering cynic, here. I'm trying.

I do wish that people would stop passing laws for my own good.
Can't we just all live our own way and get along? Is it that stinking hard?

(Yes Bruce, I did accuse Dick Cheney of being a Sith..but that's because he's EVIL! More to the point, I oppose the war in Iraq. I suppose some might consider it extremist, but the comment was more in humor....)

 

[aerocontrols]

It is kind of odd that in the world today we are faced with dangers from Islamic extremists. We can read the neoconservatives (often Christian extremists) talk about how today's terrorism is the lasp gasp of an Islamic militantism that the Muslim population is losing tolerance for therefor they have resorted to violence and fear to hold on to some degree of power.

The neoconservatives seem blissfully unaware that they are using the same tactics for the same reasons.

As a neoconservative, I'm curious to know why you believe that neoconservatives are often Christian extremists. Who would you put in both categories?

Here is a good place to start looking for people. I note that the entry says nothing about Christian extremism.

 

[Bruce]

As a neoconservative, I'm curious to know why you believe that neoconservatives are often Christian extremists. Who would you put in both categories?

Here is a good place to start looking for people. I note that the entry says nothing about Christian extremism.

Ah, so a "neocon" is anyone under 30 who disagrees with the Democratic party. Makes sense.

 

[Bruce]

(Yes Bruce, I did accuse Dick Cheney of being a Sith..but that's because he's EVIL! More to the point, I oppose the war in Iraq. I suppose some might consider it extremist, but the comment was more in humor....)

Siths aren't evil. They're just misunderstood.

 

[Charlie Monoxide]

Being a left-wing secularist with a good dose of skepticism, I challenge the religious right-wing to bring on their "girly" god. I will smite him/her/it with reason and sound arguments.

Perhaps this could be broadcast on a pay-per-view.

Charlie (neodeicider) Monoxide

 

[Kodiak]

Siths aren't evil. They're just misunderstood.

I think I recently heard Lord Vader say something along those very lines to Master Kenobi...

 

[Kodiak]

Being a left-wing secularist with a good dose of skepticism, I challenge the religious right-wing to bring on their "girly" god. I will smite him/her/it with reason and sound arguments.

Perhaps this could be broadcast on a pay-per-view.

Charlie (neodeicider) Monoxide

Careful. All he has to do is show up to tear your position to threads...


(not that I'd be worrying about that if I were you... )

 

[aerocontrols]

Ah, so a "neocon" is anyone under 30 who disagrees with the Democratic party. Makes sense.

Umm... no.

 

[username]

As a neoconservative, I'm curious to know why you believe that neoconservatives are often Christian extremists. Who would you put in both categories?

It isn't that they are one in the same people, rather it is two groups that use each other for common goals.

Protecting Israel as the holy land, chosen of God is a Christian fundy position. Waging wars in the middle east is a neocon position.

The war as foreign policy mentality fits right into the christian nutjob agenda. Plus they get anti gay, anti stem cell and pro keeping vegetables alive forever assistance from the neocons.

The neocons are dependant upon the support of the religious right to remain in power and the religious right are dependant upon the neocons to continue having a political voice.

 

[RockNroll]

I don't think the U.S. will become a full-on theocracy any time soon (even tho it currently retains a few silly and useless laws that are pretty much grounded in baseless religious morality), because thankfully it is a very well designed country with great mechanisms in place to prevent it from slipping in so dreadful a direction.

However, it's pretty obvious that there are plenty of nuts out there who have as they AVOWED goal to make the U.S. into a theocracy. I've often had the misfortune of seeing/reading/hearing these disgusting excuses for human beings discuss at lenght how things would be if they were in charge. In my humble opinion it's very legitimate to be worried about these people and their constant attempts to breach the wall between church and state (I'm not advocaing paranoia here, simply reasonnable vigilance), so as to make sure they don't end up actually being in charge some day.