Originally posted by wraith
your MPB has already selected your choices...
Then it is not a "choice", is it?
MPB does not equal free-will...
Do you agree that your choices have already been selected?
I do not. If it is already selected, then there is no choice. For example. Choose one option from the following list.
2 + 2 does not choose to equal 4...
free-will believers say that it does...
Um... no they don't. Now some people adept at math have shown you that depending on how you define two, you can get various outcomes. However, I assume you are talking about integers (since I suspect you are not familiar with group theory) and I agree 2 + 2 = 4. But this has nothing to do with free will as I have defined it because there are no other options. Remember, free will chooses between available percieved options.
How? You spoke one sentence in french to mock me. That was the perceived benefit. However, you wouldnt type out this whole post in french if you wanted my opinion on something and I didnt understand french...
I did it to prove you wrong, not to mock you. The choice was mine.
actually, your MPB decides whether or not you learn another language...
why not learn mandarin now?
Too damn lazy. Mandarin would be of little use to me, although Spanish would be quite helpful. But I will probably use my free will to opt for being lazy.
In the same way that 2 + 2 chose to equal 4?
Not a choice. No options. See above.
coersion?
You saw that choice as being "beneficial" so you acted upon it...
if you knew that it was going to yield a certain outcome that you would have perceived as non-beneficial, then you wouldnt have "chosen" it.
Why do you think people always say "I wish I could go back in time and done this..."?
In everything you are explain here, you are making the the assumption that
I choose. You have said it time and time again. Try it again. Choice means free will. If no free will, there is no choice.
Well, if double standards takes your fancy, then Pixy is kicking my arse.
You have never demonstrated a double standard. You have
tried to tell us what Misa thinks, then argued against that. However, most of us here have seen enough straw men to recognize one. You have demonstrated an inability to vary your arguments, an unwillingness to answer questions, and internal contradictions in your logic. Yes, PM is kicking your arse. Of course, you can use your "free will" to engage in self-delusion, but it is obvious to almost everyone else here.
Sorry, bad wording...
Im saying describing free-will is like describing a 4 sided tri...
oh, are you going to show me this 4 sided tri of yours?
haha.
As I have stated, I will show you the 4-sided triangle when you agree to admit free will exists once I have done so. If you do not agree to this in advance, I "perceive no benefit" in doing so, so I will excercise my free will not to show you.
free-will is not MPB
read above!
I agree, they are not exactly the same. Now I will show you the difference.
Tricky said:Think of a number between 1 and 100.
Wraith said:
done
Okay. I don't care what number you chose, but you admit you chose one. I never promised you anything, and even if I had, what possible MPB could you have for
choosing the number you did?. There is no benefit to one number over another. This illustrates the rare situation where MBP is different from free will. Usually, you use your free will to choose the most advantageous path. But sometimes, it is impossible to know what path is more advantageous. You have no idea what number I have chosen, and indeed, I didn't even choose one. No number could be perceived more beneficial than another one, and yet, you chose one. This is an example of free will
without MPB.
mad: 
