wraith said:
ahhh yes.... the Trickster is back on the saddle once more
Yes, I'm back, and badder than ever
wraith said:
I understand youre position and anyone elses position who claim that they still have free-will, yet cant do the impossible.
Like flapping your arms to fly...
Then do you understand that free will does not claim the impossible. it only claims that you are capable of making a choice. (Which you agree is possible, but you call it MPB). I gave you a definition of what I am calling "free will" and I asked that you debate that one, not one you made up. I see you cannot follow the simplest of directions. Have you learned to tie your shoes yet?
wraith said:
The point is, you interpret informtaion gained through experience. Youre future actions are based on how you interpret that information. You will always "choose" the course of action with the most perceived benefit.
I mostly agree with you. However, I have made very bad choices in the past, some of which, if I had been paying attention to my brain instead of my hormones, would have been much smarter. However, the point is, I made a choice. Call it MPB, or call it free will. They were
choices and I made them. If you wish to claim that TLOP made them... well... evidence, please.
wraith said:
Why dont you talk in french to me?
Are you trying to flirt with me now? Sorry I usually only speak French to women I am trying to impress. However, since you have asked nicely, I will do so.
Vous avez les cerveaux d'une truite
Don't expect me to send you flowers, though.
wraith said:
If you really want to impress your boss at a meeting, would you rock on up with thongs, singlet and a can of beer?
I have no doubt that would "impress" my boss, but maybe not the way I would like. However, let me tell you a true story.
A few months ago, my company was having a "safety fair". They put people in the parking garage to keep them from breaking the rules. One of the rules was "no U-turns". Well, to get to the prime parking spaces before others do, sometimes U-turns are beneficial, and not dangerous (IMO) if you look before you turn. My boss was one of the ones in the garage noting rules violations. I drove right up to him and said I was going to make a U-turn. He said he would have to write me up. I said "fine", and I made the U-turn. This was probably not a good career move, but I did it anyway. Chalk up another win for free will.
wraith said:
You perceive that you can do this....but you wont if you perceive a course of action that would lead to a more beneficial outcome.
Sometimes I do things just for the sheer hell of it. I'll bet you know other people like this. They may logically
know that it is foolish, but they do it anyway, sometimes just to thumb their nose at authority. That, my friend, is free will at it's most blatant.
wraith said:
Why is it that you messed your pants when you were a kid?
Why is it that you use the dunny now as an adult?
Seriously, wraith, you can't expect to say that because people do not use their free will to do stupid things that free will doesn't exist. I have given you a definition of free will and asked you to tell me what is wrong with that definition. I also asked you not to do so by making up a different definition (such as , "free will = doing stupid things") You have not been able to follow the simplest of instructions. Perhaps
you do not have free will because you cannot say anything vaguely creative. However, you have said things that conflict with Franko, in spite of the fact that you have tried hard not to do so. Chalk up another victory for free will.
wraith said:
Is it because, as an adult, the most perceived benefit is to use the bathroom?
As I (and others, especially PixyMisa) have pointed out, this concept of MPB is really the same as free will. You choose between available, percieved options. Sure you choose the one that makes the most sense (at the time) but you still
choose. That is what I am defining as free will. Nobody is choosing but you, or if they are, you have no evidence of it. Call it MPB if you like, but it is the exact same thing as free will.
wraith said:
When you were a kid, why didnt you use "free-will" to go to the bathroom when nature called?
Because it violated both the conditions of what I have defined as free will. I could not choose between available, percieved options because.
1) It was not available. I couldn't control my excretory system then. Choosing to "hold it" was not an available option.
2) I couldn't perceive it. I did not recognize the signals that said I needed to "go".
My free will has gotten much stronger since then. I even have the power to restrain myself from making insulting remarks. I hereby exercise that option right now.
Best wishes, Wraith.
