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Regarding Franko...

Franko said:


Ahhh, I see … so when Jesus walked on water that wasn’t really “magic” or a “divine miracle”, it was just an ordinary everyday acausal event. The kind of thing that (according to A-Theists) happens ALL the time. In other words, just because every time you have tried to walk on water in the past you have failed, and just because the Laws of Physics prohibit you from actually walking on water doesn’t mean that Jesus couldn’t walk on water.

… because as ANY “right-thinking” A-Theist will tell you it is entirely “SCIENTIFIC” and “RATIONAL” to believe that what happens in the present is NOT based on the past, and besides there are really NO FIXED RULES anyway. Just because walking on water is usually impossible, doesn’t mean that it always is.

I guess that once you adopt a magical belief in “acausal reality” every miracle in the Bible is just as scientific as a belief in “free will” powers or believing coins ALWAYS land TAILs up?
Click to expand...

I don't understand why you keep denying a whole Theory and empirical evidence that prove the existence of events no-related to previous states. It is not speculation, it is all we have.
On the other hand, biblical miracles are easy to falsify.

Q-S
 
Yes they are Q-source. Such as Jesus walking on water. All that would take is a little brains and you can easily acheive this effect with no true magical powers what so ever. That's a magician for you.
 
J3K said:
Yes they are Q-source. Such as Jesus walking on water. All that would take is a little brains and you can easily acheive this effect with no true magical powers what so ever. That's a magician for you.
Click to expand...

I think what I wanted to say was that biblical miracles are easy to fake.
 
I know. And I was telling how it could be faked. You can purchase things right now that will let you walk on water. You won't actually walk on water, but anybody that sees you will say you just did. Hence, no mircle working at all, just magic(illusion).
 
Q-Source:
I don't understand why you keep denying a whole Theory and empirical evidence that prove the existence of events no-related to previous states. It is not speculation, it is all we have.
Click to expand...

OKAY! … so here is the ramification of that belief …

when Jesus walked on water that wasn’t really “magic” or a “divine miracle”, it was just an ordinary everyday acausal event. The kind of thing that (according to A-Theists) happens ALL the time. In other words, just because every time you have tried to walk on water in the past you have failed, and just because the Laws of Physics prohibit you from actually walking on water doesn’t mean that Jesus couldn’t walk on water.

… because as ANY “right-thinking” A-Theist will tell you it is entirely “SCIENTIFIC” and “RATIONAL” to believe that what happens in the present is NOT based on the past, and besides there are really NO FIXED RULES anyway. Just because walking on water is usually impossible, doesn’t mean that it always is.

I guess that once you adopt a magical belief in “acausal reality” every miracle in the Bible is just as scientific as a belief in “free will” powers

Q-Source:
On the other hand, biblical miracles are easy to falsify.
Click to expand...

If an entire Universe magically appearing by your Quantum acausality is “scientific” then every miracle in the Bible in also “scientific”. If you can site Magic as the basis for YOUR BELIEFS then there is NOTHING wrong with a Theist (or John Edwards) doing the EXACT SAME THING!
 
Franko said:


OKAY! … so here is the ramification of that belief …

when Jesus walked on water that wasn’t really “magic” or a “divine miracle”, it was just an ordinary everyday acausal event. The kind of thing that (according to A-Theists) happens ALL the time. In other words, just because every time you have tried to walk on water in the past you have failed, and just because the Laws of Physics prohibit you from actually walking on water doesn’t mean that Jesus couldn’t walk on water.

… because as ANY “right-thinking” A-Theist will tell you it is entirely “SCIENTIFIC” and “RATIONAL” to believe that what happens in the present is NOT based on the past, and besides there are really NO FIXED RULES anyway. Just because walking on water is usually impossible, doesn’t mean that it always is.

I guess that once you adopt a magical belief in “acausal reality” every miracle in the Bible is just as scientific as a belief in “free will” powers

If an entire Universe magically appearing by your Quantum acausality is “scientific” then every miracle in the Bible in also “scientific”. If you can site Magic as the basis for YOUR BELIEFS then there is NOTHING wrong with a Theist (or John Edwards) doing the EXACT SAME THING!
Click to expand...

Cut and paste? :rolleyes:

Your debating skills are deteriorating, Frank.
 
Q-Source:

If an entire Universe magically appearing by your Quantum acausality is “scientific” then every miracle in the Bible in also “scientific”. If you can site Magic as the basis for YOUR BELIEFS then there is NOTHING wrong with a Theist (or John Edwards) doing the EXACT SAME THING!
 
What can I say, Frank?

The scientific magic is overwhelming.

Did you know that cynic is a synonymous of skeptic? :D

Q-S
 
Cynicism

Cynicism is good:

Cynic: A member of a sect of ancient Greek philosophers who believed virtue to be the only good and self-control to be the only means of achieving virtue.

from Dictionary.com

It's from the Greek word for "dog", the same root that "cynosure" shares. Which means "dog's tail" and refers to the Ursa Minor, due to the unvarying position of the Pole Star.

No need to thank me.
 
Rosetta Stone said:
Cynicism is good:

Cynic: A member of a sect of ancient Greek philosophers who believed virtue to be the only good and self-control to be the only means of achieving virtue.

Click to expand...

Ahh, we should start a thread about Cynics and Cynicism.

I wonder if the conception of cynicism has deteriorated in modern times. It seems like the Greek sect had a very valid purpose (achieve virtue).

Q-S
 
Hello Q -
Perhaps the next Philosopher of the Month should be Antisthenes or Diogenes, two of the classical Cynics.

Since Diogenes is already here we might ask him what he believes.
 
Franko:
If an entire Universe magically appearing by your Quantum acausality is “scientific” then every miracle in the Bible in also “scientific”. If you can site Magic as the basis for YOUR BELIEFS then there is NOTHING wrong with a Theist (or John Edwards) doing the EXACT SAME THING!

Q-Source:
What can I say, Frank?

The scientific magic is overwhelming.
Click to expand...

Yes, I guess that explains why 95%+ of the worlds population “overwhelmed” by the “magic” of A-Theism. :rolleyes:

You have your magic, and they have theirs. No difference between you really … Except that THEY believe in ultimate consequences for their actions and A-Theists do not.
 
It is hard to believe how many people still believe in Creationism.

Science is still looking for answers, if Science to your eyes looks like magic, then it is a pity. Although, I think it is just a deist's hypocrisy.

To me, even with its shortcomings, Science's achievements are more real and important than any other attempt to explain how the Universe works.
 
It is hard to believe how many people still believe in Creationism.
Click to expand...

It’s even harder to fathom that anyone thinks universes magically appear out of no where by magic.

Until A-Theism came along all religions were based on the notion of Fatalism. A-Theism is simply a rejection of Science in favor of Magic.

Science is still looking for answers, if Science to your eyes looks like magic, then it is a pity. Although, I think it is just a deist's hypocrisy.
Click to expand...

I have no doubt that much of what you call “Science” I would also call science (and vice versa), but your acausal QM magic is not science by ANY stretch of the imagination. It’s simply absurd incomprehensible nonsense contradicted utterly by All observed reality.

To me, even with its shortcomings, Science's achievements are more real and important than any other attempt to explain how the Universe works.
Click to expand...

We see things very much differently in this regard Source. I don’t see how a religion which has condemned thousands and thousands of Souls to an Eternity of Solipsism, conformity, and utter isolation can be called a “good” thing.

I have just as much appreciation for atoms, and quarks and gluons, etc. as you do, I just have an even greater appreciation for the things which make the atoms, and quarks and gluons, etc. etc.
 
Franko said:

I have no doubt that much of what you call “Science” I would also call science (and vice versa), but your acausal QM magic is not science by ANY stretch of the imagination. It’s simply absurd incomprehensible nonsense contradicted utterly by All observed reality.
Click to expand...

Quantum mechanics is obviously a bankrupt system created by some of the most brilliant men of all time. Obviously no validity there, and all becasue Franko says so.

Obviously ignoring the fact that proof of QM would punch enourmous holes in Franko's philisophy... wait, we have posted links to QM sites showing evidence for QM!

:eek:
The mind boggles, the stomach reels.
 
neutrino_cannon said:


Quantum mechanics is obviously a bankrupt system created by some of the most brilliant men of all time. Obviously no validity there, and all becasue Franko says so.

Obviously ignoring the fact that proof of QM would punch enourmous holes in Franko's philisophy... wait, we have posted links to QM sites showing evidence for QM!

:eek:
The mind boggles, the stomach reels.
Click to expand...

here's another one to ignore:
http://www.nature.com/nature/links/010927/010927-2.html
 
Franko said:
I have no doubt that much of what you call “Science” I would also call science (and vice versa), but your acausal QM magic is not science by ANY stretch of the imagination. It’s simply absurd incomprehensible nonsense contradicted utterly by All observed reality.
Click to expand...
Yes, lad, you have a fondness for science, except when it conflicts with your strange religion. You like Hawking, except when he says that God plays dice with the universe. You like Einstein, except when he admits he is an atheist. You like Newton, except when his equations differ with your philosophy (gravity doesn't exist without mass, you know). You like the word "graviton" but you completely deny the scientifically accepted meaning of the word. You like logic, except when it traps you in a self-contradiction.

So yes, I can see you like science very much, except when it asks you to follow the rules. Damned intransigent, that science stuff.
 
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