"Rapebook"

[The Don]

For the last few days this story has been brewing. There is apparently a Facebook group page which apparently trivialises and jokes about rape, at least that's the way it's being portrayed by certain people.

The owners of the page say it's lighthearted and does nothing of the sort.

The page is called "You know she's playing hard to get when your chasing her down an alleyway" (sic)

So far, so free speech.

A woman who complained about the page on Friday on Radio 5 has now received death and rape threats, presumably in the same jocular manner (i.e. jocular to those making, much less so to those receiving).

I am loath to ban such things out of hand. I can appreciate how the callowness of youth can result in unfortunate things being written, particularly when attempting to show off. It would be nice if the knuckleheads who have contributed to the page could be educated as to the way that this kind of content makes people feel but I suspect that some (many ? all ?) couldn't care less.

On the other hand, it there is a credible threat from the group then it should be stopped immediately.

OTOH, as I understand it, the group is based in Sydney and the threats made against a woman who is UK based so whether the threat is real is up for debate (although I guess if the person feels threatened then that's bad enough).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/15130624

 

[commandlinegamer]

Other pages with death threats have been removed in the past, eg IIRC, those advocating harm to the Celtic Football Club manager, Neil Lennon.

 

[Spindrift]

For the last few days this story has been brewing. There is apparently a Facebook group page which apparently trivialises and jokes about rape, at least that's the way it's being portrayed by certain people.

The owners of the page say it's lighthearted and does nothing of the sort.

The page is called "You know she's playing hard to get when your chasing her down an alleyway" (sic)

So far, so free speech.

A woman who complained about the page on Friday on Radio 5 has now received death and rape threats, presumably in the same jocular manner (i.e. jocular to those making, much less so to those receiving).

I am loath to ban such things out of hand. I can appreciate how the callowness of youth can result in unfortunate things being written, particularly when attempting to show off. It would be nice if the knuckleheads who have contributed to the page could be educated as to the way that this kind of content makes people feel but I suspect that some (many ? all ?) couldn't care less.

On the other hand, it there is a credible threat from the group then it should be stopped immediately.

OTOH, as I understand it, the group is based in Sydney and the threats made against a woman who is UK based so whether the threat is real is up for debate (although I guess if the person feels threatened then that's bad enough).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/15130624

Facebook is a private enterprise, Free Speech protection of the constitution has nothing to do with it. Facebook can remove/allow whatever it wants.

 

[casebro]

I guess I think that using the catch phrase "if the person feels threatened" to draw the line is damn unfair to the expressor.

Leaving the limitation to one mans freedom of speech to the emotions of one person HAS to be so far extreme as to be against the most basic freedom of expression.

We can turn this case inside out: The woman is expressing her fear, and the posters on the rape site feel threatened. They are fearing for their right to expression. Too easy to make a "person feel threatened" for modern society to live by that demarcation.

Credible death and rape threats are different than a web page of jokes, or claimed sexual harassment though.

 

[sarge]

As has already been mentioned, Facebook is private property. There is nothing under US law that would prevent Facebook from restricting any form of speech for any reason.

Facebook has reviewed the page and found that it does not violate their terms of use. Now it's between Facebook, its subscribers, and its advertisers.

 

[DrDave]

As has already been mentioned, Facebook is private property. There is nothing under US law that would prevent Facebook from restricting any form of speech for any reason.

Facebook has reviewed the page and found that it does not violate their terms of use. Now it's between Facebook, its subscribers, and its advertisers.

Heard about this on the radio on Friday, and some big advertisers have been onto Facebook to make sure that their adverts don't appear alongside the page. I think the solution FB have gone for there is to remove all ads from the page.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

I think we'd have a fairly good case for banning it under "offensive content". The girl who complained and was threatened can of course teach them a lesson by pressing charges.

Then again... as much as I loathe sexual abuse and people making light of it, I don't know if I would support the group being banned from Face. People joke about all sorts of things... terrorism, rape, 9/11, the Utøya massacre... while I think such behaviour is easily out of line, I don't know if it's out of line enough to warrant a ban from Facebook.

 

[Cain]

I guess I think that using the catch phrase "if the person feels threatened" to draw the line is damn unfair to the expressor.

Could be worse. Say you're in an elevator in the early hours of the morning and someone asks you to join him for a cup of coffee. (Let me remind you that you're in an elevator.)

 

[The Don]

Credible death and rape threats are different than a web page of jokes, or claimed sexual harassment though.

From what I understand, the death and rape threats have followed the woman's initial complaint about the page although from what I recall they have taken the form of comments (or whatever Facebook has) on that page.

I cannot see how this kind of content can be allowed to persist even if the original content is retained.

 

[sarge]

I think we'd have a fairly good case for banning it under "offensive content". The girl who complained and was threatened can of course teach them a lesson by pressing charges.

Then again... as much as I loathe sexual abuse and people making light of it, I don't know if I would support the group being banned from Face. People joke about all sorts of things... terrorism, rape, 9/11, the Utøya massacre... while I think such behaviour is easily out of line, I don't know if it's out of line enough to warrant a ban from Facebook.

Which "we" would have a case? Facebook need only satisfy their own desire to ban such language. There is no other standard to meet, and no other entity has a legitimate interest in banning such language on Facebook.

 

[NobbyNobbs]

"I got it! I got it!"
"You do?"
"We'll work up a Number Six on 'em."
"Number Six? I'm afraid I'm not familiar with that one."
"Well, that's where we go a-ridin' into town, a-whompin' and a-whumpin' every livin' thing that moves within an inch of its life. Except the womenfolk, of course."
"you spare the women?"
"Naw, we rape the **** out of them at the Number Six dance later on."
"Marvelous!"
_______________
"Qualifications?"
"Rape, murder, arson, and rape."
"You said 'rape' twice."
"I like rape."

-- Blazing Saddles

As much as I abhor the crime, nearly every line in this movie, including those above, is still funny.

 

[Soapy Sam]

Could be worse. Say you're in an elevator in the early hours of the morning and someone asks you to join him for a cup of coffee. (Let me remind you that you're in an elevator.)

According to her Skepchick blog, RW has had some distinctly nasty / threatening messages post elevatorgate.

We've all had the experience of posting some seemingly harmless opinion on JREF only to have it give rise to aggrieved, angry or rude responses, because some people take it very seriously indeed. Post about something as universally interesting and potentially inflammatory as sexual politics and the rats emerge from the basement , along with the more rational commentators.

Maybe some folk feel they can say anything on the internet, because it's all pretend. Where's the hurt? But it's clear that some people are seriously hurt by internet comment, or seriously scared.

If someone feels threatened, then they are threatened, even if the person who made the threat has not the slightest intention of following through.

Which is one reason this forum has rules and moderators.

I don't have a facebook account, but it sounds to me like they need some moderation, before one legislative authority or another decides to do it for them.

 

[sarge]

According to her Skepchick blog, RW has had some distinctly nasty / threatening messages post elevatorgate.

We've all had the experience of posting some seemingly harmless opinion on JREF only to have it give rise to aggrieved, angry or rude responses, because some people take it very seriously indeed. Post about something as universally interesting and potentially inflammatory as sexual politics and the rats emerge from the basement , along with the more rational commentators.

Maybe some folk feel they can say anything on the internet, because it's all pretend. Where's the hurt? But it's clear that some people are seriously hurt by internet comment, or seriously scared.

If someone feels threatened, then they are threatened, even if the person who made the threat has not the slightest intention of following through.

Which is one reason this forum has rules and moderators.

I don't have a facebook account, but it sounds to me like they need some moderation, before one legislative authority or another decides to do it for them.

I don't believe that Facebook need worry much about legislative intervention. I do suspect that Facebook will react quickly to any threats to its ad revenue.

This womans fears do not actually result from the FB page. They result from the threats she's received after speaking out against the FB page. Her problem now isn't with either FB or the "rape" page. Frankly, I am inclined to call her a ninny.

FB is private property, and she is an invited guest. If I go to a neighbors house and hear language I dislike, I do not then go on a radio show and complain about it.

 

[Damien Evans]

Facebook is a private enterprise, Free Speech protection of the constitution has nothing to do with it. Facebook can remove/allow whatever it wants.

Also, the American constitution has about as much relevance to a group in Australia harassing someone in Britain as used tissues.

 

[sarge]

Also, the American constitution has about as much relevance to a group in Australia harassing someone in Britain as used tissues.

If Facebook is an based in America, then American laws may have quite an impact on even the overseas activities of Facebook.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Something that just occurred to me -- all these rape and death threats seem to be based on the assumption of anonymity, but I bet the anonymity could actually be pierced with some effort and the cooperation of the companies involved.

I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to make the (probably considerable) effort to track down those making the threats and hold them accountable. Once people realize that they WILL be held to task for these sorts of comments, even on the Internet, the tenor may change.

 

[funk de fino]

Something that just occurred to me -- all these rape and death threats seem to be based on the assumption of anonymity, but I bet the anonymity could actually be pierced with some effort and the cooperation of the companies involved.

I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to make the (probably considerable) effort to track down those making the threats and hold them accountable. Once people realize that they WILL be held to task for these sorts of comments, even on the Internet, the tenor may change.

We've done that in Scotland. People convicted of using Facebook to threaten Neil Lennon and spew vile bigotry at him and others.

then again facebook is not anonymous!

 

[Travis]

Imagine the desolate wasteland X-Box Live would become if we actually prosecuted all online threats of rape. Why EatMyBallz420 would be serving fifty years in prison all by his lonesome which would be impressive for a 15 year old.

 

[The Don]

I don't believe that Facebook need worry much about legislative intervention. I do suspect that Facebook will react quickly to any threats to its ad revenue.

This womans fears do not actually result from the FB page. They result from the threats she's received after speaking out against the FB page. Her problem now isn't with either FB or the "rape" page. Frankly, I am inclined to call her a ninny.

FB is private property, and she is an invited guest. If I go to a neighbors house and hear language I dislike, I do not then go on a radio show and complain about it.

But if you go to a neighbour's house and hear them making threats that you believe to be credible then you may report them to the police.

 

[Lamuella]

They're free to make these jokes (providing Facebook lets them). I'm free to think they're scum for doing so. If I wish to, I'm free to complain about it to Facebook.

Where it gets out of this realm is if actual personal details are being posted.