Randi's Tests...

[-Fran-]

not Cainer. He disapointed me. But remember the show was in 1991. He was young. His later posts in 1998 seemed good

i think Rob Hand is the astrologer to be tested. About 4 years ago, he found out what house system and methods the ancients used.
For instance the greek word «kapos» didnt mean houses as many astrologers thought, but «signs» or «places»
He uses Arabic parts unlike most astrolopgers today.
and «cusp» is not te beginning of a house,but a «point»

Does it matter which astrologer it is? If it's a science, shouldn't it work on its own, regardless of who interprets it? All astrologers should get the exact same results if the "science" behind indeed is an exact science. It should only be a question then which school of astrology is the right one, not who the astrologer is.

Well, in any case. It's all a "gotta see it to believe it" thing for me, this them acing a scientifically full proof test. So forgive me for remaining doubtful until I've seen differently.

 

[idunno]

Does it matter which astrologer it is? If it's a science, shouldn't it work on its own, regardless of who interprets it? All astrologers should get the exact same results if the "science" behind indeed is an exact science. It should only be a question then which school of astrology is the right one, not who the astrologer is.

Well, in any case. It's all a "gotta see it to believe it" thing for me, this them acing a scientifically full proof test. So forgive me for remaining doubtful until I've seen differently.

as long as astology remains unregulated, that is impossioble.
ANYONE CAN CLAIM TO BE AN ASTROLOGER

 

[idunno]

fROM ONE OF THE RESEARCHERS. Yep one of www.astrology-and-science.com

​

iDUNNO:this is pathetic. Nobody knows Hugh Laurie`s time of birth. How could the reading ever be accurate? ​

Randi is a FRAUD!!! ​

Of course, Randi is a fraud!
But his tactics are quite simple. He uses very general readings containing statements that apply to everyone. In psychology this is known as the "Barnum effect" (named after circus Barnum, meaning "we have something for everyone". ) He used this tactic in an experiment with a group of students, whom he all gave the same general reading. And everyone of them recognised themselves in this general reading.
I bet he has done the same thing with that Hugh Laurie.

 

[Miss Anthrope]

Says the tabloid astrologer:

"You'll have to pry my birth charts from my cold, dead hands!"

"When astrology is outlawed, only outlaws will write horoscopes".

 

[Cuddles]

i think Rob Hand is the astrologer to be tested. About 4 years ago, he found out what house system and methods the ancients used.
For instance the greek word «kapos» didnt mean houses as many astrologers thought, but «signs» or «places»
He uses Arabic parts unlike most astrolopgers today.
and «cusp» is not te beginning of a house,but a «point»

If astrology is a valid science, why can't people work it out themselves? Why do they have to rely on obscure writings from thousands of years ago? Can you think of any science where ancient texts are even a valid method of advancement, let alone the only one?

 

[Michael C]

fROM ONE OF THE RESEARCHERS. Yep one of www.astrology-and-science.com

​

iDUNNO:this is pathetic. Nobody knows Hugh Laurie`s time of birth. How could the reading ever be accurate? ​

Randi is a FRAUD!!! ​

Of course, Randi is a fraud!
But his tactics are quite simple. He uses very general readings containing statements that apply to everyone. In psychology this is known as the "Barnum effect" (named after circus Barnum, meaning "we have something for everyone". ) He used this tactic in an experiment with a group of students, whom he all gave the same general reading. And everyone of them recognised themselves in this general reading.
I bet he has done the same thing with that Hugh Laurie.

You're getting muddled here. The reading of High Laurie was not done by Randi, it was done by Jonathan Cainer. There was no way that Randi could influence Cainer to create a Barnum effect by giving a general reading that might apply to anyone. Cainer in fact claimed that the birth data he had been given produced "a very unusual horoscope". The fraud here is evidently Cainer, not Randi.

The assertion that the reading couldn't be accurate because Hugh Laurie's time of birth is unknown is one of the ploys used by astrologers to justify failures after the event. Of course if the reading had closely resembled Laurie's personality, the astrologers would have simply cried victory. In this case Cainer was apparently happy that the information he had been given was sufficient for him to make a precise reading.

For those who haven't already seen this clip, here it is. Note how Cainer jumps on the fact that Laurie went to university and tries to turn it into a hit for him, since he has said that the person should be intellectual and professorial. So anyone who's had a university education is intellectual and professorial?

 

[Locknar]

Yes. I do think they still make some valid points, but they are mainly for entertainment of course.

I don't think Randi hit the misses/failures "hard" because, as you note, it was for entertainment. My guess is these shows were really geared towards the fringe believers with the intent benig to plant the seed of critical thinking.

 

[Locknar]

people may think those tests are for real

The tests were real and agreed upon by the “guests”. However, these were not controlled tests (as say the JREF $1M Challenge)…which I’d think would favor the guest, as they allowed more wiggle room.

Would I say any of these folks are frauds solely based on these tests; no. I would say though, that given a golden opportunity they failed to prove their case.

 

[Locknar]

fROM ONE OF THE RESEARCHERS. Yep one of www.astrology-and-science.com

iDUNNO:this is pathetic. Nobody knows Hugh Laurie`s time of birth. How could the reading ever be accurate?

Randi is a FRAUD!!!

Cainer did the reading, not Randi...and he did it based on what ever information was provided. Any claims of "fraud" really need to be focused on Cainer as I'd argue if birth time is so critical, why did he attempt a reading at all or at the least say something like "Well, I'm not sure how accurate this reading will be because I didn't have the birth time, which is criticial, but here is what I got...."; he didn't do that.

Secondly, you assume that Hugh (got it right this time!) didn’t provide this information; simply because it is not publicly available does not mean HE does not know it.

 

[Mojo]

Cainer did the reading, not Randi...and he did it based on what ever information was provided. Any claims of "fraud" really need to be focused on Cainer as I'd argue if birth time is so critical, why did he attempt a reading at all or at the least say something like "Well, I'm not sure how accurate this reading will be because I didn't have the birth time, which is criticial, but here is what I got...."; he didn't do that.

It's all a bit like idunno, in another thread, providing readings for a pair of twins and then, after his readings turned out to be totally wrong complaining that they were too young for a reliable reading.

Something he would have been able to tell from the date (and time) of birth he based the reading on.

 

[Locknar]

It's all a bit like idunno, in another thread, providing readings for a pair of twins and then, after his readings turned out to be totally wrong complaining that they were too young for a reliable reading.

Something he would have been able to tell from the date (and time) of birth he based the reading on.

Noticed that too did ya? Regardless…idunno seems to genuinely believe that astrology does something.

Specific to this topic for all I know, Randi may be a fraud or a cheat; I don’t know him personally (though wish I was lucky enough to). That said, I’ve seen nothing that supports those claims…what I have seen and read shows he (Randi) to be someone of impeccable integrity and honesty; not to mention just plain darn smart!

To overlook Cainer’s (or the other guests in the various segments) willing participation in the videos and their subsequent failure, let alone avoid any serious, rational discussion on the topic he's (idunno) spawned seems disingenuous and overall weakens his claims (on astrology, or say Randi).

 

[Complexity]

I've come up with my secular penance for the 'Frye' incident:

I'll keep reading idunno threads.

 

[Mojo]

To overlook Cainer’s (or the other guests in the various segments) willing participation in the videos and their subsequent failure, let alone avoid any serious, rational discussion on the topic he's (idunno) spawned seems disingenuous and overall weakens his claims (on astrology, or say Randi).

Actually, not having the exact time gives the astrologer a win/win situation: if the reading is accurate, then he can claim it shows astrology works. If it isn't, he can claim that it didn't work because he didn't have the exact time, not because astrology is nonsense.

ETA: This may show up a little sloppyness in Randi's approach giving the astrologer wiggle room; it certainly doesn't justify idunno's claim of fraud.

 

[Locknar]

Actually, not having the exact time gives the astrologer a win/win situation: if the reading is accurate, then he can claim it shows astrology works. If it isn't, he can claim that it didn't work because he didn't have the exact time, not because astrology is nonsense.

ETA: This may show up a little sloppyness in Randi's approach giving the astrologer wiggle room; it certainly doesn't justify idunno's claim of fraud.

Yepper, that it does for the astrologer. However, Cainer never once complains about this missing CRITICAL information.

He could have/should have done so right out of the gate; "Well I didn't have a birth time, can be important in these types of readings, but lets see how close I got."

If he hits - wow, he's amazing...a hit even missing key information; if he misses, well he's already laid the groundwork.

Again, this all assumes Hugh did not in fact provide a birth time; there is no proof he did or didn't...simply speculation.

 

[malbui]

I've come up with my secular penance for the 'Frye' incident:

I'll keep reading idunno threads.

I don't think you need to be that hard on yourself. It was only a little mistake you made.

 

[idunno]

Yepper, that it does for the astrologer. However, Cainer never once complains about this missing CRITICAL information.

He could have/should have done so right out of the gate; "Well I didn't have a birth time, can be important in these types of readings, but lets see how close I got."

If he hits - wow, he's amazing...a hit even missing key information; if he misses, well he's already laid the groundwork.

Again, this all assumes Hugh did not in fact provide a birth time; there is no proof he did or didn't...simply speculation.

folks the use of sun signs is a 20th century thing. It is part of the «create your own reality» attitude that pervades the modern world. The ascendant has always been the most important. Vedic astrologes for instance consider the ascendant your sign

 

[Locknar]

folks the use of sun signs is a 20th century thing. It is part of the «create your own reality» attitude that pervades the modern world. The ascendant has always been the most important. Vedic astrologes for instance consider the ascendant your sign

I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic; ie. Randi's "tests" benig rubbish.....