• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

racist Tintin

I strongly agree. Yeah,Lovecraft had some ideas that 95% of us would disagree with,but that does not change the fact he is a hell of a good writer.

Dear dud,

I think Lovecraft's racism made him a stronger writer. It not only puts the modern reader in unfamiliar territory, it enriches the milieux with notions of racial disintegration and creeping urban degeneracy, going all the way back in the Mythos to the Robert E. Howard tales of the various races of men perpetually at war with one another. A sanitised, abridged Lovecraft will no doubt be composed by some tool or other, but it will lack the Darwinian bite and won't be as atmospheric.

Cpl Ferro
 
On Swedish Tv4, they had a segment in the news about a young Congolese? student who apparently claimed that Tintin in Congo were racist, and as such should be banned from the bookstores and libraries etc. Not one from Swedish TV4 challenged his views about that the book should be banned. Not one confronted him on what he would say when books he liked were to be banned. Not one asked him to answer what authorities were to oversee books etc. in order to have them comply with his guidelines for content.

The thing is that free speech etc. is very much under pressure - both from the right wing and from the left wing. And also, from people who have been brought up in dictatorships, therefore thinking they can decide what people should read, see or listen, too. The West (if that's a concept at all?) must defend the freedom of speech, regardless of whom that attacks it.

Free speech is the cornerstore for a democracy and should be defended at (nearly) all costs.

To get back to Tintin in Congo, Hergé were commisioned to make this album, and probably wouldn't have portrayed the africans in the same manner today.
As I've said in my first post, art etc. can't be completely taken out of context for its time. I, therefore, too, think it is wacko and nuts to censor the old Tom & Jerry cartoons, cutting smokes and cigars from them. Many of the plots in these cartoons involved a cigar (or a cigarette), and yes, both people and cats alike do get smudged around the face when fake cigars blow up in their faces.

Lucky Luke's portrayal of Indians are actually a bit more diversified that you might think. There clearly both good indians and bad indians. And the bad indians behaviour is always explained by white people taking advantage of them e.g. given them rifles or whiskey, or promising them great things to come.

Oh, another note on Tintin, he also went to America in the album aptly named 'Tintin in America'. Maybe you Americans should read it. It portrays (nearly) all Americans as stupid, hillbillies with no culture at all or as criminals. Even the police is eating off the hand of criminals, like the mafia in Chicago.
Very very racist ;) - one could argue against americans...

Just a thought, though....
 
Back on July 12th when I read this story, I sent off an e-mail to that commision thinga-majig.

Naturally, I received no reply.

Hello,

So, I'm reading a story on the BBC Website about you wanting to ban "Tintin in the Congo".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6294670.stm

Would you like to burn some other books as well, while you're at it? Please, show me a list, I'd LOVE to see it!

Seriously now, political correctness has gone too far. Sure, the Tintin-book is very racist, I even thought so when I read it at 10 or 11, but why ban it? Freedom of speech and all that! Right?

Speak against racism, please! It is needed, but don't BAN books just because you don't agree with them. Argue against them instead, show us WHY they're wrong!

Otherwise you're just coming off as another fascist.

Regards,

Christian Andersen, Denmark
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6294670.stm

Um yes this is Tintin in the Congo. It is racist. It's a bit like complaining that Kolberg is pro nazi.

A spokeswoman said the book contained "words of hideous racial prejudice, where the 'savage natives' look like monkeys and talk like imbeciles".
Borders said they are committed to let their "customers make the choice".
So it's a choice between thought control by the left (who need to galvanise their position by constantly discovering racism in everything) and freedom of choice. I would always choose the second one. Whether or not the book is racist is a moot point; what we are here seeing are members of an unelected body deciding to tell us what we can and can't read.

And, for goodness sakes, if this book is all they have to worry about then they must have far too much time on their hands :jaw-dropp

ETA: Maybe we should ban these books as well, pandering to racial/national stereotypes as they do:

http://bp3.blogger.com/_68LSd2Rdq0A/Rex2VOKtggI/AAAAAAAAApM/ORJLdOIdRUA/s1600-h/ladybird11c.JPG

http://bp2.blogger.com/_68LSd2Rdq0A/Rp5xLR9VnNI/AAAAAAAABj8/OaPgnyCYlfU/s1600-h/startersplaces.JPG

http://bp0.blogger.com/_68LSd2Rdq0A/Rc9puIEzAhI/AAAAAAAAAcQ/T-dWaPqr9VQ/s1600-h/widerangeblur.JPG
 
Last edited:
This whole thread reminds me of the whole Epix debacle in Sweden in the mid- to late 80s.

Comic strips has been published in Sweden at least since the end of the 19th century (it depends a bit on how strictly you define ‘comic’) but through all its Swedish history it has been quite non-controversial.

In many European countries the art of drawn comics was later (in the 60s and the 70s mostly I would think) used to express many views and topics, while in Sweden it was still something funny you read in the newspaper and something you bought for your kids. Many Swedish kids growing up in the 60s and the 70s will remember their Donald Duck or The Phantom magazine, the bar of Marabou chocolate and the ‘Sockerdricka’ soda they got on Saturdays. Sure, grown ups read comics too and there were comics more directed to adults than to kids, such as Spy-, and criminal comics, Westerns and the like, but they were never more controversial than that a 40 year old dad couldn’t share his Agent X9 and Western collection with his 13 year old kid. Reading comics as an adult was considered a bit of a guilty pleasure anyway, the consensus being that all in all, comics are mostly for kids.

I am sure there was an underground comic movement in Sweden as well, and I saw some erotic comics in men’s magazines, but I know very little, or nothing at all, of it really. It never reached into the mainstream in any case.

But then a German immigrant by the name of Horst Schröder decided to stir up the Swedish comic market a little. In 1984 he started two comic magazines called Epix and Pox. They contained mainly European comics of all genres imaginable, and the variation and mix of genres in the same magazine was in itself a new thing. Epix though tried to be a bit more mainstream, while Pox went the whole way and contained comics that were very controversial, extreme and offensive (according to many). Epix still had the rather absurd and extremely graphic Spanish comic Anarcoma which had an openly gay and transsexual theme. Something virtually unheard of before in Sweden. Here was now a whole new world of comics for my country. New genres, new artists, new topics, never before published here in the Swedish language.

For me personally it was a virtual goldmine. I am forever grateful to Herr Schröder for showing me in such young years that all this existed. Epix and Pox was not only interesting to read for the broad variety of genres, artists and topics, but also because Schröder himself wrote long articles in the magazines. Articles about politic, culture and censorship. I haven’t re-read his articles now in many years, and maybe I would disagree on many things now if I did. But my point is that those articles taught a 15, 16 year old girl a lot of things, not least to think for herself, form her own opinions, research them as best she could and try to argue for them. Yes, comic magazines actually were a big part of what formed me into a skeptic.

Not everyone thought the same thing about them as I did though. As I said, Epix and Pox contained many genres. Humor – often sinister or crude, politics, erotica, horror, underground, absurdity and surreal, realism, SF and Fantasy, adventure and so on. Soon some of these genres got their own magazines, such as the Swedish version of Metal Hurlant. But what all of these genres had in common were that they were distinctly aimed at an adult audience. They could not be shared with your kids! The Swedish market never quite got this. In the grocery stores, the drugstores and the supermarkets they kept putting Epix where they thought comics books should be, among the kid's stuff, and there was outcry after outcry, angry newspaper articles and demands for complete removal of this abomination, from upset parents and the like. Even when the stores learnt where the magazines belonged they never quite reached the adult buyers who didn’t really got the concept. I suspect that Epix and Pox was mostly bought by rebellious teenagers who thought it was cool to buy a magazine that shocked the adult world. (I was one of them I guess :o)

Schröder fought to keep his publishing company alive, lamenting the disinterest of the Swedes, and warned against the censorship that some groups demanded. Today Epix, tomorrow… who knows what? He warned. In 1989, Bo Bertilsson of Folkaktionen mot pornografi, Malmöavdelningen (Roughly: The People’s Action Group Against Pornography, The Malmö Division) reported one particular issue of Pox to the police, and there actually was a trial about the comics in that issue of Pox. It is somewhat ironic, I think, that one of the prosecuted comics was an illustrated text from the Bible, namely Judges, Chapter 19. This chapter is one of the cruellest and violent ones in the Holy Bible, and the comic simply illustrated the actual text, taken directly from the Bible. Well, the Bible wasn’t prosecuted, but Pox was. Naturally it was acquitted, but that it was prosecuted at all says something about how controversial these comics were thought to be back then, and the magazines were doomed anyway. I guess the time wasn’t ready for them? I think Epix and Pox stopped being published in the early 90s, but, I do think Epix Publishing is still alive today, in some form.

Yup, here it is! Epix Förlag is still alive and well… not well, but still fighting for survival on the Internet. :)

http://www.epix.se/catalog/

Well. In the early 90s I had a period where I was unemployed and to still have something to do I attended a course arranged by the local unemployment agency. It was a totally meaningless course really; a kindergarten for adults, a way to keep the unemployment statistic low, but at least it would mean something to do, so I went there. One day in class comics for grown ups and Epix came up as a discussion topic, and influenced by Schröder and his ideas about the absolute importance of free speech and no censorship, as well as my own love for this magazine and its offspring, I argued for adult comics, and for Epix, and for controversial art, comics and literature on the whole. I have seldom felt so alone in arguing for something. Not one of the others (there were about 10 of us) agreed with me. “Sure free speech is nice and all, but think of the children!” This was their only argument really, and an argument that I didn’t stand a chance against. No matter how I tried to argue that I was all for keeping kids away from any adult themed media. No matter that I pointed out that they don’t demand that the TV should be outlawed because of a few adult-oriented shows, and so on and so on… What ever I said, it was only: “But don’t you care about the children?” And that was it. No arguments could top that. After that I was rather disliked as the person who thinks kids should get to read comics full of violent and sexual things. Which I, of course, do not think at all!

Oops, didn’t mean for this to turn into an essay :)
 
Last edited:
No worries, Fran. I found your post interesting. Who knew that the allegedly "liberated", liberal Sweden was once so backwards in terms of free speech? :) Kind of like here in Québec, how the Catholic Church used to dominate every aspect of everyone's lives up to the 1960's.
 
Interesting, Frann. Here in the UK, we have Viz, which sounds very similar to the comics you described:

http://www.viz.co.uk/

Interestingly, this magazine has evaded the attentions of the thought police PC fascists (at least for now).

Rabble rousing banal soundbites such as "but don’t you care about the children?" are designed to stifle all debate on the issue, in the same way accusations of "racism" are used by lefties to stifle legitimate debate about identity issues. It is a form of social control and I, for one, find the term "political correctness" offensive, in that it suggests that one ideology (marxist) is more correct than the others. These are the tools of intellectual tyranny.

I am sorry to say that this situation seems to be getting worse. We have people in the UK (such as Abu Hamza and Nick Griffin) being put on trial or jailed for their beliefs. And this in a 21st century democracy!!!
 
No worries, Fran. I found your post interesting.

Thanks :)

Who knew that the allegedly "liberated", liberal Sweden was once so backwards in terms of free speech? :)

Yeah, it's complicated. In some ways, I guess Sweden really are (were). Schröder and his comic magazines were never in any real risk of really getting sentenced, I think. But in other ways, Sweden was (is) embarrassingly backwards in questions like this, in that people in general doesn't follow the times, so to speak. I guess Sweden got famous (infamous :) ) in the 60s and the 70s for being rather liberal sexually. There was a long line of soft porn films, and films with erotic contents who created the image of "The Swedish Sin", but many of those films were made for export and were never embraced among the Swedish "grassroots". Sexual revolution, or no... Most Swedes did not see themselves as particularly sinful :)

The 80s doesn't seem so far away, but it was a time when many new things came to Sweden, and new things are always a threat to many people. The Epix debacle was really nothing compared to the debate about the video film violence. The VCR came and suddenly everybody, especially the poor innocent children, could watch as many porn films and uncensored gore and slasher films in their own homes as they wanted to. Surely this was the end of the world. Now all our young people would get brainwashed and jaded and start to go around and murder people with chainsaws! :eek: (The film The Texas Chainsaw Massacre is still mostly know in Sweden as the film who got to be a symbol of the whole video violence scare.)

Yeah, on some levels, Sweden were quite liberated... on other levels, not at all :rolleyes:

Kind of like here in Québec, how the Catholic Church used to dominate every aspect of everyone's lives up to the 1960's.

At least we were spared from that, being a protestant country already being rather secularized, but even without a strong church, moral panic has its outbursts, it seems.
 
Interesting, Frann. Here in the UK, we have Viz, which sounds very similar to the comics you described:

http://www.viz.co.uk/

Thanks :)

Yeah, Viz seems to be something similar.

Interestingly, this magazine has evaded the attentions of the thought police PC fascists (at least for now).

Yes, I think if Epix and Pox had been started today, it would not have had this effect either, but back in the 80s it was too controversial it seems

Rabble rousing banal soundbites such as "but don’t you care about the children?" are designed to stifle all debate on the issue, in the same way accusations of "racism" are used by lefties to stifle legitimate debate about identity issues. It is a form of social control and I, for one, find the term "political correctness" offensive, in that it suggests that one ideology (marxist) is more correct than the others. These are the tools of intellectual tyranny.

It really is quite annoying when people use that argument (if it can be called a real argument.) Everything can be condemnded on the basis of the argument 'think of the children', and thus, any argument you would have for whatever it is that is condemned would, in their ears, be the same as saying that you are not at all thinking about the children. That is of course a conclusion that is completely wrong. But people who think they are on a mission/crusade to save children from harm, can not be reasoned with, I have noticed. They just don't see that of course that is what any sane person wants, that kids be kept away from things that harm them. But why that has to include me loosing all my rights as an adult to read, see and hear what I choose to, is beyond me :rolleyes:
 
But people who think they are on a mission/crusade to save children from harm, can not be reasoned with, I have noticed.

Yes indeed; you cannot reason with the brainwashed. And it is not only religion that indoctrinates; trade unions, hard right wing (or left wing) pressure groups, politicised universities and cults of personality are also notorious sources of mind control. The result is a bunch of sanctimonious intellectual drones with loud mouths and no ability to understand scientific research. No amount of findings to the contrary will ever shift them from their delusions. We have something similar in the UK at the moment, with David Cameron promising to ban violent computer games if his party ever get into power while he is leader (so I think these games will be around for a considerable length of time :D). The point is that people latch onto one level of analysis (usually the "social") without ever considering other forms of evidence. A sign of the times I guess.

They just don't see that of course that is what any sane person wants, that kids be kept away from things that harm them. But why that has to include me loosing all my rights as an adult to read, see and hear what I choose to, is beyond me :rolleyes:

That is because they believe themselves to be our superiors and we are not to be trusted, even with our own kids. It stinks.
 
By the way, if you want to see TinTin being offensive, Google "Boro tintin" or "Teesside Tintin", or search Youtube for them. Absolutely hilarious!
 
Last edited:
That is because they believe themselves to be our superiors and we are not to be trusted, even with our own kids. It stinks.

You know, that is one of the things about censorship that has always seemed so absurd to me. Some things are considered not good for grown up people to see, read, watch, hear... and so on. But to decide which these things are, some most actually see, read, watch, hear it... How come those people who decide what is appropriate can handle it? When no one else apparently can? :rolleyes:

But yeah, that does show that some consider themselves more superior than others.
 
Fran, is it true that in Sweden, Haddock isn't drinking whiskey but apple juice or some such? That would be pretty weird.
In the early editions, yes. Not sure about the later editions. But even sequences where the captain is drinking whiskey has been edited in order to e-empasize the driniking.
In Denmark there's been talk about editing out the captains pipe, but thankfully nothing's come of it. No such luck with Lucky Luke, who's already chewing straws in new editions.
They've also edited away Sartre's cigarette. Fascists!
 
These sort of things must be viewed in the context of the time they were written. I refer you to Edgar Wallace "Sanders of the River" series, paternalistic, racist, the lot. But normal for their time. I remember seeing on tv, as a small child, Popeye cartoons made during WWII in which the Japanese are shown as buck-toothed, goggle-eyed, evil idiots. Products of there times.
OK, I'm pleased to say many of us have moved on from there, but that doesn't mean neccessarily that we should cofine all the films and literature of history to the rubbish heap. As long as we remember - yes, you've guessed it - they are products of their times.
 
Just noticed this thread and, being a long-time Tintin fan had to ring in.

"In The Congo" along with "In The Land Of The Soviets" and "In America" are probably my least favorite Herge volumes. Besides posessing a racist and naively Eurocentric message, they are the most crudely drawn of the series, have the most simplistic story lines, and, most damning, none of the most beloved Tintin characters that make the later volumes so wonderful. Face it, Snowy alone doesn't provide much of a foil for the boring boy reporter (though I must admit Snowy is better fleshed out in these earlier volumes before the rest of the cast comes along). We even have Tintin exploding a rhinocerous by drilling a hole in its back and shoving in a stick of dynamite, a scene which later shamed Herge himself.

I have these volumes because they make my collection complete, not because I enjoy rereading them. And this alone is a substantial enough reason for their continued publication - they are required to complete the picture of Herge and his times. I agree that it would be wise to provide a contextual forward for future editions lest they are taken to be judged solely on their own merits, out of context of history and Herge's later work.
 
Last edited:

Back
Top Bottom