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Questions for Jesus-Freak

flume

Muse
F
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Apr 26, 2004
Messages
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Here's a place to continue the questions that were brought up in the Jesus-Freak Challenge topic and others if that seems convenient.

Jesus-Freak, in particular I would like to challenge you to answer my question that I posted in the Bible is 100% true topic. Can you as a Bible-believing Christian accept the scientific evidence for evolution as being reasonable and apparently true, and assume that God made it to appear that way for His own reasons? If not, why not? This is what I would ask your radio show people if I were to call in.

Second, I would like to ask you if you could talk about about microevolution, the change between what creationists call 'kinds' versus macroevolution, which creationists call the change between animals which are not 'kinds'? Can you talk about this without moving to abiogenisis?
 
Jesus-Freak you asked how a Christian could believe in evolution.

People started to reply in the Jesus-Freak Challenge topic, but it was suggested that that was offtopic for that thread. So maybe you could discuss it here.

JF, you have to know that many Christians are accepting of evolution. Can you make your question more clear? As someone asked, do you mean how could Biblical literalists believe in evolution?
 
I posted this question in the JF-challenge thread, but it probably belongs in this thead:

A year or two ago, the Episocpal General Assembly (the ruling body of that church) passed a resolution stating that "evolution is entirely compatible with an authentic and living Christian faith." Are of the position that Episcopalians are not Christians?
 
I think JF fled as I started asking him questions which reach uncomfortable conclusions.

I would also ask him if he thinks atheist = immoral. From his comments, he does not feel that an atheist can be a "good" person.

This morning, I blew the snow off my Christian neighbor's sidewalk and driveway. I do it because I think it's a nice thing to do (he has to shovel snow). Meanwhile the Christian neighbor on the other side of him is a jerk and never does the neighbor's walk.

Does JF think this jerky neighbor is not a "true" Christian?
 
I have a question also. Actually, it is a question posed by Lewis Carroll, who was ordained in the Anglican Church.

How can a merciful and loving god impose eternal punishment?
 
Hello J-F.
Here's a challenge for you.
(no money involved though.)

I'm in the middle of reading a book, "The Language of God - A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief" by Francis Collins.
He is (or was) the head of the Human Genome Project. He is a Christian, although I don't know what particular denomination, but he says it is evangelical. His book includes these sentences:

"No serious biologist today doubts the theory of evolution to explain the marvelous complexity and diversity of life. In fact, the relatedness of all species through the mechanism of evolution is such a profound foundation for the understanding of biology that it is difficult to imagine how one would study life without it."

He talks about the ideas that led him from disbelief to belief in God, and he also talks about science and evolution. (He discusses creationsism and intelligent design in one section.) So far I haven't found his arguments for belief compelling, but I respect his knowledge.

I challenge you to read at least part of this book, in particular the part about genetics and about evolution. (You could get it from the library as I did; use interlibrary loan if your local library doesn't carry it). At least you could get an idea of how a Christian who is also a biological scientist thinks about evolution.
 
Here's a place to continue the questions that were brought up in the Jesus-Freak Challenge topic and others if that seems convenient.

Jesus-Freak, in particular I would like to challenge you to answer my question that I posted in the Bible is 100% true topic. Can you as a Bible-believing Christian accept the scientific evidence for evolution as being reasonable and apparently true, and assume that God made it to appear that way for His own reasons? If not, why not? This is what I would ask your radio show people if I were to call in.

Second, I would like to ask you if you could talk about about microevolution, the change between what creationists call 'kinds' versus macroevolution, which creationists call the change between animals which are not 'kinds'? Can you talk about this without moving to abiogenisis?
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Ok i will answer these questions to the best of my knowledge, and my best ability...I do not claim to speak for every Christian, and I will adimit that I probably am the least studied on these topics of all the people in here...again I will tell you what I beleive.
1)No. I do not beleive that there is any scientific evidence for evolution...I beleive the Bible the Bible says that God created man in his image so that would be one reason why.
2)micro evolution or the evolving of kinds...ok dogs for example...I believe that a black lab and a poodle have a common ancestor...it was a dog, not a duck or a elm tree, but a dog! as far as I know no dog has ever givin birth to a mouse...Keep in mind that I am not trying to be ignorant, and my examples may not satisfy you, but I do not beleive in evolution.
 
JF, you have to know that many Christians are accepting of evolution.
Click to expand...
I am affraid that many "Christians" are also molesting children, or getting divorced... ust because someone calls them self a Christian does not make it so. Some people think that if they beleive in Christ they are Christian. I would love for 81% or whatever it is now of Americans to be Christian but I am affraid it is not true. I do not think that anyone who beleives in evolution or the gap theory can be a Christian. Does any of this mean that I am the judge of their hearts...NO...So it really makes no difference what I think, but evolution in not Biblical.
 
COLUMBUS, OHIO (6/15/06)-The 75th General Convention of the Episcopal Church today passed a resolution essentially condemning the Bible as an "anti-Jewish" document. Not only does the resolution aim to address perceptions of anti-Jewish prejudice in the Bible and Episcopal liturgy, but it suggests that such prejudice is actually "expressed in...Christian Scriptures and liturgical texts."
http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4242

I don't agree with their views...no
 
1)No. I do not beleive that there is any scientific evidence for evolution...I beleive the Bible the Bible says that God created man in his image so that would be one reason why.
Click to expand...

'Image' could mean a whole lot of things.

The question obviously becomes:

1) Do you accept ANY science? If so why?
2) What has the Bible done to prove itself more accurate a guide to reality than the observation of the aforementioned reality?

2)micro evolution or the evolving of kinds...ok dogs for example...I believe that a black lab and a poodle have a common ancestor...it was a dog, not a duck or a elm tree, but a dog! as far as I know no dog has ever givin birth to a mouse...Keep in mind that I am not trying to be ignorant, and my examples may not satisfy you, but I do not beleive in evolution.
Click to expand...

JF, if you are not trying to be ignorant then LISTEN.

EVOLUTION DOES NOT SAY DOGS SHOULD GIVE BIRTH TO MICE. IT SAYS THAT MAMMALS SHARE A COMMON ANCESTOR THAT WAS NEITHER A DOG NOR A MOUSE.

The point here is that in the distant past there was a small mammal and some of its descendants would have gradually become dog like and some of them mouse like. We're talking small changes here over a long time period. Not one day suddenly giving birth to a completely different creature and then poof! That's a new species.

I am affraid that many "Christians" are also molesting children, or getting divorced...
Click to expand...

So? You're the one who said earlier that your god would forgive someone who repented for killing and raping a little girl.

Just because someone calls them self a Christian does not make it so.
Click to expand...

You are not a Christian then.

Prove otherwise.
 
I think JF fled as I started asking him questions which reach uncomfortable conclusions.

I would also ask him if he thinks atheist = immoral. From his comments, he does not feel that an atheist can be a "good" person.

This morning, I blew the snow off my Christian neighbor's sidewalk and driveway. I do it because I think it's a nice thing to do (he has to shovel snow). Meanwhile the Christian neighbor on the other side of him is a jerk and never does the neighbor's walk.

Does JF think this jerky neighbor is not a "true" Christian?
Click to expand...
1) You wish...lol
2)Atheist, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddist...none can be good people...they all can do some good acts but that does not make them good people.
3)No...that does not mean your "jerky" neighbor is not a Christian...No where in the Bible does it say "you must shovel your neighbors driveway to get to Heaven."
 
How can a merciful and loving god impose eternal punishment?
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If a judge on earth sentences a criminal to prison does that not make him a merciful loving man/woman? No it makes him just and God is waaaaaay more just than any man. Does God want you to go to hell? I don't think so, and that is what you are implying.
 
2)Atheist, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddist...none can be good people...they all can do some good acts but that does not make them good people.
Click to expand...

So your basic point is that it is in fact impossible to be a 'good' person?

Then let's drop the word 'good' - it clearly doesn't mean anything.
 
how would you define a 'dog'?
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Like webster I guess...Why?
1.a domesticated canid, Canis familiaris, bred in many varieties. 2.any carnivore of the dogfamily Canidae, having prominent canine teeth and, in the wild state, a long and slender muzzle, a deep-chested muscular body, a bushy tail, and large, erect ears
 
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