Questions about Diabetes?

There can be some/non-sensation level increase & toxic/sensation level increase. some/non-sensation level increase may not be immediately noticable. Being Na/K pump is Active transport, it may take some time to trigger imbalances in it on getting some disorder as IR. Accumulation of sodium due to excess intake in digestive secretions can be other consideration for delayed sensation/absorption in this way.
 
Kumar said:
There can be some/non-sensation level increase & toxic/sensation level increase. some/non-sensation level increase may not be immediately noticable. Being Na/K pump is Active transport, it may take some time to trigger imbalances in it on getting some disorder as IR. Accumulation of sodium due to excess intake in digestive secretions can be other consideration for delayed sensation/absorption in this way.
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That is called an ad hoc thesis. It means a thesis you make to cover up holes in your previous thesis. And it is nonsense. Both glucose and salt enter the bloodstream shortly after eating. Glucose uptake usually peaks within an hour. There is NO WAY the uptake of either could be delayed three days.

How was this observation made? How many times? What were the BG levels:

1) On the day of the snack binge?
2) The next day?
3) On day three?
4) On day four?

What time of day were these levels taken?

Hans
 
Kumar said:
TT,

What does then the above quote means?
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That oral rehydration solutions create more rapid water absorption by careful choice of solutes.

As for the rest, you are making your usual mistake of Googling on words and bringing in every concept and mechanism that involves those words. That is not the same as proving the existence of a dependence of one of those mechanisms on another as selected by you and your huge brain. Real science sends time and money working out which pathways and linkages are physiologically relevant. As you have been told repeatedly real science leaves no scope for the chains of dependences you are describing to exist physiologically.

What you fail to realise is that there are two questions to be asked.

1. is it true?
2. does it matter?

Most of what you Google for is true, that's why you mostly don't find us refuting individual facts, but as part of what you want to discuss here these true facts simply don't matter.
 
Badly Shaved Monkey said:
No, it's called bollocks. It means a thesis made up by someone who knows little and has even less desire to learn.
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Well, when an ad hoc thesis is divined to patch an ad hoc thesis, which was made to pathc ... etc., then the result becomes indistinguishable from bollocks.

I think that what would impress me practically as much as a well-designed test of homeopathy with a positive outcome would be to meet a proponent of homeopathy who could recognize a logic chain if it was tied in a noose around his/her neck :rolleyes:.

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
I think that what would impress me practically as much as a well-designed test of homeopathy with a positive outcome would be to meet a proponent of homeopathy who could recognize a logic chain if it was tied in a noose around his/her neck
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Yes, I've notcied that as well. If you construct an argument to defeat them and has more than one step, their first and only approach is to say they don't like the conclusion and so the argument is, in the words of Mad Albert, sophistry, as in "sophistry"(n.)- a logically tight argument with an inconvenient conclusion. :)
 
Kumar said:
There can be some/non-sensation level increase & toxic/sensation level increase. some/non-sensation level increase may not be immediately noticable. Being Na/K pump is Active transport, it may take some time to trigger imbalances in it on getting some disorder as IR. Accumulation of sodium due to excess intake in digestive secretions can be other consideration for delayed sensation/absorption in this way.
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:confused:

Absolutely and completely nonsensical gobbledy-gook. I've told you repeatedly that sodium does not 'accumulate' in the body as you describe. You're grasping at straws here, Kumar.



Oh, yeah. And what Hans and BSM said.

-TT
 
Mr,Hans, TT, BSM,

Ok, then tell me how Na/K pump as Active transport, effect blood glucose level & making sweat/ mucus(phelgum) more salty?

As per information given on various links provided by me, it is indicative that most of Sodium & sugar are coupled/ co-transported via Na/K pump from intestines. Why then is is important in increasing BG & sodium levels in blood? Body maintain a specific level is a differant concept by if sodium & sugar goes in to the blood via this process or not?

Another question:-

How BG & sodium levels are effected by Osmolality of blood? Can it be thought that High BG & Sodium levels are found in blood tests due to higher Osmolality of blood(due to less water) but still total glucose level & sodium in blood is same? I mean if BG or sodium levels are found higher on blood tests, can it be just due to less water in blood?
 
But, you gotta admire his persistance. It is like one of these, what do you call them, tumbler dolls; push it over, and it comes back up, push it over, and it comes back up ... ad infinitum.

However, I notice there IS actually a new question there :

:clap:

Another question:-

How BG & sodium levels are effected by Osmolality of blood? Can it be thought that High BG & Sodium levels are found in blood tests due to higher Osmolality of blood(due to less water) but still total glucose level & sodium in blood is same? I mean if BG or sodium levels are found higher on blood tests, can it be just due to less water in blood?
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Yes, all else alike, of course BG and sodium will measure higher when water content is low. Some measuring methods might partly compensate for this, but there is no doubt a connection.

Edited to add: This is the reason that poorly regulated diabetics are thirsty. The body tries to lower the BG by adding water, and succeeds to some extent because some glucose is passed by the kidneys.

And if you eat lots of salt, you will also get thirsty.

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:

Yes, all else alike, of course BG and sodium will measure higher when water content is low. Some measuring methods might partly compensate for this, but there is no doubt a connection.

Edited to add: This is the reason that poorly regulated diabetics are thirsty. The body tries to lower the BG by adding water, and succeeds to some extent because some glucose is passed by the kidneys.

And if you eat lots of salt, you will also get thirsty.

Hans
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Mr.Hans, thanks. I am confident that when I persist any concept some truth will definitely will be hidden in that because basis of pursual is good, pure & some practical, theoritical or logical basis.

Now, how can we decide that whether BG & Sodium is high in whole body? It may be just higher in blood due to less water but may not be higher in whole body? How then we can differanciate/assess 'complications due to excesses in blood/serum or in whole body'? Can a person be declared as diabetic or hypertensive just due to less water in blood due to drinking less water or otherwise?
 
Kumar said:
Mr,Hans, TT, BSM,

Ok, then tell me how Na/K pump as Active transport, effect blood glucose level & making sweat/ mucus(phelgum) more salty?

As per information given on various links provided by me, it is indicative that most of Sodium & sugar are coupled/ co-transported via Na/K pump from intestines. Why then is is important in increasing BG & sodium levels in blood? Body maintain a specific level is a differant concept by if sodium & sugar goes in to the blood via this process or not?

Another question:-

How BG & sodium levels are effected by Osmolality of blood? Can it be thought that High BG & Sodium levels are found in blood tests due to higher Osmolality of blood(due to less water) but still total glucose level & sodium in blood is same? I mean if BG or sodium levels are found higher on blood tests, can it be just due to less water in blood?
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∞
 
MRC_Hans said:
However, I notice there IS actually a new question there :

:clap:
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Not new, Hans, just not brought up for some time.

He was on about this nearly a year ago I think. I remember explaining to him what percentage dehydration was plausible, and what percentage was incompatible with life. Then showing how small an alteration in blood glucose concentration might be caused by (say) a 10% dehydration, compared to the enormous increases seen in actual diabetes.

Something similar with regard to sodium, but also considering the permeability of the vessels to such small molecules, and the fact that in dehydration these molecules will leave the circulation. As opposed to things like proteins and even red cells, that are trapped within the bloodstream by their size, and so can be much more reliably used to estimate the degree of dehydration. Also considering that sodium in particular is highly regulated, and even a dehydration-induced increase will not persist for very long.

I recall going into all this in quite some detail. It's obvious Kumar didn't take in a word of it. What a waste of time.

Rolfe.
 
Kumar said:
Mr.Hans, thanks. I am confident that when I persist any concept some truth will definitely will be hidden in that because basis of pursual is good, pure & some practical, theoritical or logical basis.
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I doubt it. Seriously, you have shown no ability whatsoever for discerning between truth and pure fantasy.

Now, how can we decide that whether BG & Sodium is high in whole body? It may be just higher in blood due to less water but may not be higher in whole body?
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No. The water concentration in the bloodstream closely matches that of the rest of the body. Osmosis will see to that.

How then we can differanciate/assess 'complications due to excesses in blood/serum or in whole body'? Can a person be declared as diabetic or hypertensive just due to less water in blood due to drinking less water or otherwise?
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No.

You do not diagnose diabetes from a single high BG. Also, the changes from having a low or high water content are small compared to those from diabetes.

Likewise with hypertension (why are we suddenly talking hypertension?); it is not diagnosed from a single high value, and the effects of dehydration (which might increase BP) are low compared to the pathological changes.

Finally, a serious dehydration, which might somewhat throw off various measurements, will bring with it a number of other symptoms, which would be noticed and treated. Dehydration is very easily detected and treated.

Hans
 
We mainly bother because we enjoy brandishing our superiour knowledge and debating skills. The more inept the opponent, the more dazzling the contrast. This is the reason people like Kumar draw such a crowd. ;)

Hans
 
Mr.Hans, Rolfe,

I think you are right. Some dehydration should not cause much changes in blood but I don't know how any bio-chemical works on 'whole body concentration'. There can be progressive imbalances which may not be indicative by blood tests upto certain stages but still pregressing leading to any disorder. Calcium may be normal in blood but still it might have accumulated in bones. Magnesium is other mineral.


Can you differanciate between 'blood concentrations' & 'whole body concentrations' of differant bio-chemicals?

Sometimes, It looked to me that BG are better controlled in people who drink more water & during rainy season- who drink less water. D you have ny idea, how drinking more or less water effects a person?
 
Generally, drinking sufficient water is a good thing. It helps both the digestive system, kidneys and other things function better. Perhaps counterintuitively even persons on diuretics for hypertension should drink lots of water. Also, perhaps counterintuitively, drinking much water reduces the strain on the kidneys.

Ideally, an adult person should get between 4 and 8 liters of water per day (including water contained in food), unless in a hot climate, in which case more is recommended.

Hans
 
Mr.Hans,

Yes, it is good to drink more water except in some renal failure & over-hydration conditions. But how much water contribute to blood volume is to be understood?

"Water accounts for about 60% of a man's body weight. It represents about 50% of a woman's weight. Mild dehydration is the loss of no more than 5% of the body's fluid. Loss of 5-10% is considered moderate dehydration. Severe dehydration (loss of 10-15% of body fluids) is a life-threatening condition that requires immediate medical care." Blood volume is appx. 5 ltrs in a 70Kg person. Total water in body of 70Kg. will appx be 43Kgs in man & a 10% dehydration mean 4.3 kg water. How then this dehydration contribute to blood volume is important to understand. Depending upon this we can calculate BG & Sodium imbalances accordingly.

Dehydration & Overhydration are conditions related to water balance in body.
 
Kumar said:
Depending upon this we can calculate BG & Sodium imbalances accordingly.
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No, not really. If you are dehydrated then blood Na rises, but what do you mean by a "Sodium imbalance"? Balance between what?

Bear in mind that "imbalance" is a thoroughly woo word available for use in meaningless compound woo phrases like "used to treat imbalances in the immune system"
 
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