Quantum- well, nano - concerns

[jmercer]

I was reading a recent issue of Time magazine in my doctors office, and there's a heckuva lot of amazing (and mostly legitimate) things being done these days with nanotechnology. Much of it (as I understand it) relies on how the properties of material change at quantum levels. In example, I was very surprised to find out that the undercoating on the commercial versions of Humvees are actually a use of nanotech.

At some point, as Arthur C. Clarke put it, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." (If I misquoted, my apologies.) Substitute "paranormal" for "magic", and we may have a problem here at JREF.

It seems to me that nanotech may be rapidly approaching the point where that could literally be true... so, take one somewhat creative (but also somewhat unprincipled) technologist, add a quirky quantum effect that would otherwise be of little commercial use... and you may have a JREF challenge that beats the system.

Granted, for any useful effect, a million would be peanuts. (Imagine a room-temperature superconductor, for example.) But what if the effect were truly trivial? (I can't think of one, but there must be something so useless that it wouldn't be worth a dime.)

Just thinking... (moderators, please move if you feel this doesn't belong in this forum - thanks!)

 

[drkitten]

I was reading a recent issue of Time magazine in my doctors office, and there's a heckuva lot of amazing (and mostly legitimate) things being done these days with nanotechnology. Much of it (as I understand it) relies on how the properties of material change at quantum levels. In example, I was very surprised to find out that the undercoating on the commercial versions of Humvees are actually a use of nanotech.

At some point, as Arthur C. Clarke put it, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." (If I misquoted, my apologies.) Substitute "paranormal" for "magic", and we may have a problem here at JREF.

No more so than any other scientific advancement, I should think. Most of the legitimate uses of nanotech sound at least vaguely scientifically plausible. It will require a rather special collection of circumstances -- a legitimate new scientific development that sounds completely off-the-wall and doesn't make it onto Randi's reading list. If Randi spends ten minutes checking Google before accepting claims (or KRAMER does, on Randi's behalf), this should catch almost everying.

 

[jmercer]

I think you're probably right... I spent a good 10-15 minutes wracking my brain for possible nanotech uses that wouldn't bring in millions of dollars, and failed miserably. So I'd imagine that finding one that was "wooey" enough to make the challenge, yet not have any practical application would be strictly by accident.

Thanks for helping put my mind at ease over the topic.

 

[gnome]

Worst-case scenario, Randi underestimates progress in the field and stakes the money on it--someone collects the million in a spectacular display. Randi, JREF, and co. probably say at this point, "holy ◊◊◊◊ that was cool!" and it leads to tremendous interest in the field. Then they come up with techniques to prevent nanotechnology tricks in the future, and eventually offer another million dollar challenge.

Wouldn't be the end of the world. It'd be kind of neat actually.

 

[Ririon]

Speaking as someone who works with physics on the nanoscale on a daily basis:

It is hard enough to get something useable out of this even when using lab-equipment worth much more than 1 M$.

I can't think of anything that would seem magical or paranormal just popping up without at least 50 universities working on something similar. Would someone in the 1950s think of Humvee undercoating, iPods, mobile phones or DVD-players as magical or supernatural? I don't think so. 1850? He would probably be more impressed by the Humvee itself...

Someone extremely talented with access to the labs of an exellent university might make a cool nanotech gadget all on her own, but it wouldn't seem even remotely supernatural if she didn't singlehandedly advance the state of the art significantly more than, say, 50 years (as illustrated by my 1950s example). If I made something like that, I would be running to the nearest patent office, and not waste a second trying to fool Kramer for a lousy million...

Contrary to popular belief (not popular in this forum), actual quantum mechanics or nanotechnology has absolutely nothing to do with whatever some woo claims is happening in homeopathy, ghost stories or whatever.

In conclusion:
We can only hope something like this will happen, but JREF would not be the first people contacted

Ririon

 

[Metullus]

I know what you are thinking JM, lad - you are thinking of submitting the Quantum Dot yourself for the million bucks.

How low-down can you get?

As to whether KRAMER or The Amazing hisself might be vulnerable to a pseudo-woo claim fomented by a diabolical nanophile - well, in the words of Obi-wan Kenobi (Jedi Master and noted sceptic) "Trust in the forums, Kramer". These people are absolutely WORLD CLASS nit-pickers. I actually pity the nanophile when it comes to protocol negotiation time?

 

[jmercer]

I know what you are thinking JM, lad - you are thinking of submitting the Quantum Dot yourself for the million bucks.

How low-down can you get?

As to whether KRAMER or The Amazing hisself might be vulnerable to a pseudo-woo claim fomented by a diabolical nanophile - well, in the words of Obi-wan Kenobi (Jedi Master and noted sceptic) "Trust in the forums, Kramer". These people are absolutely WORLD CLASS nit-pickers. I actually pity the nanophile when it comes to protocol negotiation time?

Egads! I've been outed!!! I've been working on my quantum dot for years... YEARS, I TELL YOU! And now (sob), thanks to Metullus, it's ALL WASTED!!!! (sob)

Well... at least I'll still have my revenge! So, Metullus... how much weight have you gained since I gave you that fudge recipe??

 

[Metullus]

Egads! I've been outed!!! I've been working on my quantum dot for years... YEARS, I TELL YOU! And now (sob), thanks to Metullus, it's ALL WASTED!!!! (sob)

Serves you right, you under-handed, deschpikible, argghh!

Well... at least I'll still have my revenge! So, Metullus... how much weight have you gained since I gave you that fudge recipe??

I'm going in for my annual physical tomollow - I'll let you know. I am not optimistic...

Did you try KRAMER's Datil Devil Sauce?

 

[jmercer]

Not yet on the Datil... I just have to find the time to order it, because I LOVE that kind of stuff!!!

 

[Pyrts]

I don't see that nanotechnology would have any impact on the challenge. The amount of power exerted is almost immeasureably tiny. You could repair genes or do other body functions, but frankly, Randi isn't going to pay for a bodily function.

At least, I sure wouldn't, and I'm fairly certain that he's a lot pickier about this than I am.

If you put enough nanites around to do something even pseudo-magick-y (such as, maybe "magnetically" attaching devices to your skin), the sheer number of nanites needed to be able to produce even a modest amount of force would make a rather huge and obvious sized lump (perhaps basketball sized.)

I think everyone would notice this.

 

[Ririon]

In theory you could make a coating that would stick to talcum powder and human skin, I guess, but as Pyrts says, it would be noticeable. Nanotech or not.

Kramer could just say: Hey! This anvil with the very sticky green paint on it sticks to me to. What was your paranormal claim, again? Can you do it with this off-the-shelf object from the local hardware store? Why not? This doesn't look paranormal at all! Just very, very sticky... Where's the magic in that?

Or Randi could say: OK, so you passed the preliminary, let me just have som of my scientist friends at (insert prestigious university here) have a look at your gizmo before the final test...
If the effect is based on advanced technology, the applicant will grab his gadget and run for the patent office. A patent for something so awesome that it could potentially impress JREF is worth millions. Next step: Read patent and say: Cool! No paranormal challenge, but I would like to invest in your company! No? OK, when can I buy one of those sweet little thingies, then?

Tricking the JREF into giving out the million is allowed, but I don't think these guys are easily tricked.

Ririon

 

[Metullus]

JMercer -
Physical done. Results are in - damn you, you fargin bastich!

Its oatmeal and rice cakes for me for a while.

 

[jmercer]

Hah! And my fellow Illuminati thought I was a crackpot! HAH, I say! Fudge is indeed the assassins most subtle weapon!

 

[Rob Lister]

In theory you could make a coating that would stick to talcum powder and human skin, I guess, but as Pyrts says, it would be noticeable. Nanotech or not.

Kramer could just say: Hey! This anvil with the very sticky green paint on it sticks to me to. What was your paranormal claim, again? Can you do it with this off-the-shelf object from the local hardware store? Why not? This doesn't look paranormal at all! Just very, very sticky... Where's the magic in that?

Or Randi could say: OK, so you passed the preliminary, let me just have som of my scientist friends at (insert prestigious university here) have a look at your gizmo before the final test...
If the effect is based on advanced technology, the applicant will grab his gadget and run for the patent office. A patent for something so awesome that it could potentially impress JREF is worth millions. Next step: Read patent and say: Cool! No paranormal challenge, but I would like to invest in your company! No? OK, when can I buy one of those sweet little thingies, then?

Tricking the JREF into giving out the million is allowed, but I don't think these guys are easily tricked.

Ririon

That was pretty funny. You're a good writer. I keep picturing a guy covered head-to-toe in a thin layer of rubber cement walking into the JREF building and...well, you get the picture.

Hopefully, because I have a sense of humor, the first person he'll run into is Kramer.

 

[Metullus]

Yeah, thanks to you I'll probably need a nano-auger to clear my arteries.

Hey! Maybe the Datil Devil Drops will have a cleansing effect. I'll let you know...