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"Psychics" and their tricks and how are they performed

Matthew Ellard said:
No. You cannot put a person a trial after they die. They cannot answer questions, as they are dead. A video can be edited.

Therefore you must set out all the alternative hypotheses as to what may be going on and assign probability, like a coroner.
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Hypothesis 1) Pachita was possessed by the spirit of the Aztec emperor Cuauhtémoc and could perform magical surgery although not speaking any Aztec language and performing surgery that Cuauhtémoc never performed using a modern steel knife.

alternatively

Hypothesis 2) Pachita was a con artist using standard stage magic for financial gain.

Which hypothesis do you support?

Ваш родной язык русский?:)
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The first is basically too stupid to support, like I said I almost have an obession with finding out what "really" happened which is perhaps why sometimes i just keep trying to reach.

I also get upset at the fact that people like this keep getting promoted with no critical analysis for example somone a few years back had made a movie about this "healer" and her family http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqmxxe9UB08 which from 30:00 to34:00 there were even more of those "surgery" pics (who is the source of these photos anyways???)

My curiosity and my desire to "keep diggin"gets the best of me almost every time
 
But what exactly is there to dig? It seems to be, save from someone inviting you to watch how this is done and guiding you laboriously through every small minutia you won't be satisfied.

All psychic surgery is done essentially the same; blood(Fake/Animal) and guts(Animal parts and bits of the bag it's in) is placed in a bag. The bag is palmed while the "patient" either looks away, has something over their eyes or is told to close their eyes and pray.

The palmed bag is placed on the area, punctured causing a fake bloodstream. The fingers are bent and pushed into the skin to create the illusion of penetration for onlookers. The fraudster then using his hand as cover and uses his free hand to pull both the animal parts and parts of the bag up pretending he is removing the affliction.

Cotton is used to absorb liquid and is purely for show. The area is wiped with a towel which serves as an easy way to collect any leftover parts of the bag.
 
Nay_Sayer said:
But what exactly is there to dig? It seems to be, save from someone inviting you to watch how this is done and guiding you laboriously through every small minutia you won't be satisfied.

All psychic surgery is done essentially the same; blood(Fake/Animal) and guts(Animal parts and bits of the bag it's in) is placed in a bag. The bag is palmed while the "patient" either looks away, has something over their eyes or is told to close their eyes and pray.

The palmed bag is placed on the area, punctured causing a fake bloodstream. The fingers are bent and pushed into the skin to create the illusion of penetration for onlookers. The fraudster then using his hand as cover and uses his free hand to pull both the animal parts and parts of the bag up pretending he is removing the affliction.

Cotton is used to absorb liquid and is purely for show. The area is wiped with a towel which serves as an easy way to collect any leftover parts of the bag.
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Like i said I am way too curious, and obessed with being thorough especially with the absurd chain reaction this "healer" had caused that ended in the Satanic Panic
 
I clicked the link.

So the knife doesn't have to be fake, per se, but I can tell you it has no edges.

In all likelihood, he applies some pressure and the victim feels the dull blade tip, thus selling the illusion. To onlookers, it's the previously mentioned curled fingers.

I'm not bothered with how they do it but the fact they are doing it and scamming people out of money.
 
Nay_Sayer said:
I clicked the link.

So the knife doesn't have to be fake, per se, but I can tell you it has no edges.

In all likelihood, he applies some pressure and the victim feels the dull blade tip, thus selling the illusion. To onlookers, it's the previously mentioned curled fingers.

I'm not bothered with how they do it but the fact they are doing it and scamming people out of money.
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There is one thing that annoyed me a bit though, on page 9 of that link, there is a photo, can you guys see if the "surgeon" is hiding her ring finger behind a bloody cotton rag? because it looks like its in a very odd position from what I can see
 
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Setsurinvich said:
Does anyone here understand Spanish well? Because this person here claimed to be descended from a Mexican "psychic" mentioned here . From what I can tell she seems to be mad at a video that somone did critical of the psychic and was really upset by it


https://www.facebook.com/SanadoraPachita/videos/777139062898281
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Why is this even relevant to your larger question? Right now what you are doing is the equivalent of sticking your fingers into your years and shouting "La...la...la..la..la.." when someone provides answers to your questions and then claiming that your questions weren't resolved to your satisfaction. And to further your own illusion (for no one else but you) of active engagement in the discussion, you post irrelevant crap like the link above that adds nothing of value to the discussion. This is a typical strategy to inundate the thread with idiocy to hide the fact that your own "counter-arguments" have no basis in fact.
 
Every time one of these pso-called psychics is investigated they turn out to be fraudulent, or at least unable to demonstrate their abilities under controlled conditions. This has happened enough times that we can safely generalise and say that without sufficient evidence no psychic has genuine abilities.

And then someone comes along and says "but what about this person? All those others may be bogus, but could this one be the real thing?"

And the completely appropriate answer to that question is that unless this person is willing and able to demonstrate their abilities under controlled conditions, it is pretty safe to assume that they are bogus too.
 
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Wot Arth said. With a sprinkle of there being no known mechanism by which any of these things work, so someone needs to demonstrate a plausible mechanism before we start looking at what these frauds claim they do with that mechanism which doesn't appear to exist.
 
Susheel said:
Why is this even relevant to your larger question? Right now what you are doing is the equivalent of sticking your fingers into your years and shouting "La...la...la..la..la.." when someone provides answers to your questions and then claiming that your questions weren't resolved to your satisfaction. And to further your own illusion (for no one else but you) of active engagement in the discussion, you post irrelevant crap like the link above that adds nothing of value to the discussion. This is a typical strategy to inundate the thread with idiocy to hide the fact that your own "counter-arguments" have no basis in fact.
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it was just something amusing i found and wanted to share.
 
Because there's evidence that at least some of the claimants are tricksters, and no evidence that any claimant is a genuine psychic, the null hypothesis here is clear. Futher, as this is also a well-plowed field of entertainment, we can also posit that it's not especially difficult to find out how to do the tricks, and that evading detection is part of the skill involved. A claimant has to do more than just claim, or have demonstrated his skill in a venue he controls.

The gatekeeper criteria for consideration therefore has to be what controlled, testable evidence already exists of some new claimant's ability. It can't be just one more guy making the rounds, who simply might be more skilled at deception that the previous contestants. It can't be a new candidate simply because the observer couldn't figure out how the trick might have been done. At this point any claim to real psychic powers has to provide more up front.
 
Carrot Flower King said:
Wot Arth said. With a sprinkle of there being no known mechanism by which any of these things work, so someone needs to demonstrate a plausible mechanism before we start looking at what these frauds claim they do with that mechanism which doesn't appear to exist.
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I'd settle for a successful demonstration first. Then we can start looking at how it works.

No-one should waste time trying to come up with a mechanism before the effect has been successfully demonstrated.
 
i realize i probably overthink these questions too much, its just unfortunate that resources are so limited and we could not properly investigate things like this while these psychics were at the height of their popularity. Apparently multiple people claim to inherit the "gift" of the original psychic and all claim that they can possess the power of that aztec spirit!
 
Setsurinvich said:
I am not, its just that this story for whatever reason had bothered me for a long time and I just want to solve it once and for all, as well with info on the internet for all to see with a detailed explanation of the charlatanism being done. Since you have experience with stage magic, can I ask what exactly was the hand pose that gave it away?
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Once you do answer it "once and for all" you will find that you will be plagued by insincere people JAQing off for their own amusement. You can even find such people on this site.

Good luck
 
I suppose all those people who claim to have the same spirit power as the originial "psychic" are JAQing off .. sigh
 
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