[Pseudo] Intellectual Racism

The Atheist said:
Fair request, example right here: http://australasianskeptics.info/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2467

That isn't the only one, but it's conveniently recent.
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That's not bigotry. He's saying the poor health outcomes are caused by lifestyle choices. He is arguing that it's better to attack the problem directly through outreach and education rather than economic benefits.

I do agree that there are some people that use statistics in inappropriate ways to support racist views. On the other side, there are some politically correct people that will ignore statistics that don't fit their worldview.
 
I want to know what a bunch of NZ sceptics are doing coopting the Australian title - where the **** are the Aussies on that forum? :mad:
 
ThunderChunky said:
That's not bigotry. He's saying the poor health outcomes are caused by lifestyle choices. He is arguing that it's better to attack the problem directly through outreach and education rather than economic benefits.

I do agree that there are some people that use statistics in inappropriate ways to support racist views. On the other side, there are some politically correct people that will ignore statistics that don't fit their worldview.
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Good post.
 
Ok also. Look at the link The Athiest posted as an example of "the worst kind of racism".

Look at the 1st response to the post.... I think it's the same "The Athiest" that posted the topic here.

Read his response.... that's the definition of racism.
 
and at least for black mothers, this is actually because the number of children born by married women has plummeted, and not because the number of children born by single black women has increased.
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Really? interesting. do you have a link? I'd not heard that explanation before.
 
MG1962 said:
In some instances simply throwing assistance at the issue is not working. Back in the 80s and 90s a lot of effort was put into why Aboriginal people were so under represented in higher learning.

One of the things to emerge was the fundamental wiring of the brain, specifically when it came to maths. Aboriginals simply think differently to Europeans. By changing how younger children were taught maths at the elementary stage created greater chances for the children becoming more successful educationally in their teens and beyond.

With health the challenges are twofold. It is known that the genetic makeup of Aboriginals puts them at a far higher risk of alcoholism than their western counterparts. The second issue is many of these people live in remote under serviced regions. So an easily controlled disease in its early stages becomes fatal for these people because it is not caught soon enough.
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Saying this would be intolerable racism in Canada. Indeed, it's racist by definition: to deem a group different mentally from another group by virtue of genetics. Why haven't you been frogpiled for these statements?

Cpl Ferro
 
Alright, just to humor the OP, let's take a look at US murder statistics for 2011 by the race of the offender:

White: 4,729
Black: 5,486
Other: 256
Unknown: 4077

So you have blacks, who make up about 13% of the population, committing (at least) 37.7% of the crimes. This is assuming that blacks committed none of the murders where the race of the offender is unknown.

I chose murder because it is certainly the one crime that police pursue with reasonably equal vigor without regard to race.

Do you really want to blame that on white racists? And consider that blacks mostly kill other blacks (as whites kill mostly other whites), so if the intent is to get back at white racism they're doing an awfully poor job of it.
 
Caper said:
That's not that bad. He basically argues against giving Maori more cash and start a campaign of better lifestyle choices. I'd hardly call that racist.
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Me neither, but calling them a violent race is.

bpesta22 said:
I have recent data on racial composition and various measures of well-being (using the 50 states as the unit of analysis). The correlations are very large and negative.
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No argument there.

To me the issue is clear-cut. Children are not born religious, or criminals, so if one group is failing, they would usually be considered the victims.

Blaming the victim is the heartbeat of intellectual racism because it ignores the obvious point that something causes the problem and it probably isn't genetic.

bpesta22 said:
I'm guessing, but would have to look it up, that the USA has spent 1 trillion dollars on Head Start since the 1960s. It's gotta be 1 trillion at least if you generalize that to include all money thrown at educational systems in an attempt to reduce race gaps. Those are expensive lips!
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A guess? Surely you can do better than that?

Wikipedia tells me that the federal budget is $8.5B for the 2007 year. If I work that back over 40 years, I get $320B.

Less than a third of a trillion, so in a country with a GDP of $16.8T, you're spending less than 0.05% of the budget on raising standards for black kids.

I compare that to defence budget of $160B. I see 10% of GDP killing people and 1/20th of that spent on affirmative action. Maybe not your definition of "lip service" but it works for me.
 
Brainster said:
I chose murder because it is certainly the one crime that police pursue with reasonably equal vigor without regard to race.

Do you really want to blame that on white racists?
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Well, I haven't done that yet, so I probably don't, no.

Seems a redundant question to me. White racists probably slow the rate of change, but you certainly can't blame them.

Brainster said:
And consider that blacks mostly kill other blacks (as whites kill mostly other whites), so if the intent is to get back at white racism they're doing an awfully poor job of it.
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I'm not sure how this is supposed to be relevant, or what it's even supposed to be relevant to.
 
The Atheist. Are you a minority yourself? That is what I got from your other thread.
 
The Atheist said:
Well, I haven't done that yet, so I probably don't, no.

Seems a redundant question to me. White racists probably slow the rate of change, but you certainly can't blame them.
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Wasn't it you who wrote:

I believe there are a myriad of reasons why those people have such negative life outcomes, and much of it is the fault of those white racists and their forebears. Having destroyed their cultures through violence and introduced disease, white people left those groups to pick up their own pieces. And they have largely failed.
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I could certainly see somebody committing murder a "negative life outcome", which you assured us that much of the myriad of reasons why is the fault of those white racists and their forebears.
 
Caper said:
Why does it have to be and or?

Are Blacks, Natives or Hispanics allowed to be responsible for any problems within their communities? Or can it only be whitey's fault?
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People are allowed to be responsible. My point is that Bill Implied that Blacks are inferior (lazy, violent) automatically (genetically?) rather than acknowledging that racial poverty is more of a systemic issue than a genetic one.

Bill is one of those people who believes the US is a meritocracy and that everyone can just put a dollar in the bank for every dollar they make (this is not true). He won't admit that those who are born poor are very likely to stay poor.
 
Caper said:
He basically argues against giving Maori more cash and start a campaign of better lifestyle choices. I'd hardly call that racist.
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It's racist alright. You can tell that by his frequent use of a racial label. His basic argument is that Maoris have poor health not due to European influence, but simply because they are ignorant and 'lack willpower'. IOW they are somehow inherently inferior to Whites.

Maori Health said:
Maori have a very large tendency to patronise crap fast food outlets, like McDonalds and KFC. But it is not because they cannot afford good food...
The reason Maori eat crap food is not economics. It is a blend of ignorance of good nutrition, and a lack of will power to make the effort to go home and cook.
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But plenty of other kiwis also patronize those crap fast food outlets. To suggest that only Maoris have health issues due to inherent weakness while ignoring the fact that many 'Whites' have a similar problem is clearly racist.

But our racist friend goes even further than that, suggesting that Maoris are actually intent on hurting themselves despite the generous 'help' Europeans supposedly gave them...

Maori Health said:
Scientific studies of the bones of pre-European Maori showed periods of plenty and periods of severe malnutrition. When Europeans introduced the humble potato, a reliable staple, it was one of the greatest gifts ever delivered to Maori.
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Getting them hooked on starchy foods was a 'great gift'? I guess that makes up for introducing them to booze and tobacco, infecting them with fatal diseases and stealing their land - not!

And they are still doing it. It's all very well to say that just throwing money at Maoris won't change their eating habits, but we are all getting mixed messages about what we should eat. Nutritionists tell us that we should avoid 'junk' food, but everywhere else we are constantly being goaded to consume, consume, consume! The problem is not race based but cultural, and right now it is American culture that is doing the damage.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
And they are still doing it. It's all very well to say that just throwing money at Maoris won't change their eating habits, but we are all getting mixed messages about what we should eat. Nutritionists tell us that we should avoid 'junk' food, but everywhere else we are constantly being goaded to consume, consume, consume! The problem is not race based but cultural, and right now it is American culture that is doing the damage.
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Are you Maori?
 
Caper said:
Are you Maori?
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Given that he is referring to American culture, I think it's safe to infer that he is referring to the similar issues that African-Americans have with public health issues like obesity and diabetes for much similar reasons to the Maori why have them in New Zealand. in particular I think he's referring to the reasons that have nothing to do with and characterological defects of ethno-racial groups.
 
Brainster said:
I could certainly see somebody committing murder a "negative life outcome", which you assured us that much of the myriad of reasons why is the fault of those white racists and their forebears.
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Did you miss the bit about "their forebears"?

Call me on making assumptions, but I'm prepared to bet that those white racists of today are the descendants of the past racists who owned slaves, denied blacks the vote, etc ad nauseum.

Those are the people behind the history which has resulted in the negative outcomes.

Their descendants are now enabling the continuation of racism by misusing correlation and causation.
 
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