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Proof of God's existence! 1 million dollar challenge at the end! Randi better pay-up!

Flaherty said:
What is the best Campbell's soup?

I like the Progresso Lentil soup best.

It's not a Campbell's soup, so I guess it's not really answering the question you asked.

Cambell's has been changing their soup formulations lately, so it's hard to say, having not eaten any of their recent offerings.
 
Science evolves, religion does not. What was magic a 100 years ago is today scientific fact. All those things we'll be able to explain when the time comes.
 
But how can I present convincing evidence if you will not tell me what evidence will convince you??
You seem to misunderstand what evidence is needed to win the JREF challenge. It is not about trying to convince anyone, it's about proving something objectively! That means that even if you convince anyone you still do not win.

Suppose someone claims that he can levitate. Does he win by convincing someone that he can? No! He wins by levitating!

So you can't ask any skeptic what kind of evidence will convince them. What you need to do is show evidence that will convince everyone (who has eyes in his head and half a brain)!

Trying to prove God by trying to poke holes in evolution has been done a million times and is always unsuccessful. The most you can achieve by that is proving that the theory of evolution is unable to explain certain phenomena. It is in no way proof that God is needed to explain them.

If you want to prove the existence of God, you need to find positive evidence: you need to find God and take him to Randi where He can be tested whether He really is God. Finding a talking burning bush (not a president) is not enough, because that would only prove the existence of talking burning bushes (which will win you the million dollars) not the existence of God.

You see, the million dollar prize is meant for paranormal/metaphysical phenomena that are directly observable. It can't be used for the existence of God (yet?).
 
It seems what has been found is proof of the effectivity of evolution rather than proof of god. Sure, you could probably define the positions of the atoms in a perfect grain of salt with about ten bits. But take the Oklo reactor, totaly independant of natural systems, and very complex. Took some of the brightest minds to replicate it.

Of couse you could take this as evidence of god too. Of course, anything in the universe could be taken as irrefutable proof of god's existance, and it would be complete hooey.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Proof of God's existence! 1 million dollar challenge at the end! Randi better pa

----
But how can I present convincing evidence if you will not tell me what evidence will convince you??
----


How can I know in advance what will convince me? I can't read the future.

So therefore, you can present any evidence you may have.


Also, with Randi's million, I can call a bank and check to make sure it is there. Can you provide me with a number to a bank I can call just to check?

Thanks.
 
evildave said:


I like the Progresso Lentil soup best.

It's not a Campbell's soup, so I guess it's not really answering the question you asked.

Cambell's has been changing their soup formulations lately, so it's hard to say, having not eaten any of their recent offerings.

Some of their chunky soups are actually good. And also the Campbell's Select. Also, Wolfgang Puck soups are good.
 
Hello muscleman,

Here's some constructive criticism free of charge. I'm not trying to attack you, just making some observations. I certainly encourage you to post all you like, but if you truly wish to have a discussion on the issues, these tips might help you .

1. You are all over the place. Focus on your subject. Present your opinion, some supporting sentences and then wrap it up. You replied to me in another thread and told me that I was wearing you out. Well, right back at you. I'm struggling to chop through all the extraneous pieces to get at the real topic you are discussing.

2. Avoid the words "always", "never", "impossible" and the like. Unless you can prove that something really does "always" or "never" happen, you are simply wrong.

3. Coneheads? Weirdo? Avoid the ad hominem attacks. They don't support your argument well. Sure, someone might be a conehead, but that doesn't mean they might not be correct. And do you really want to get spanked in an argument by upsetting the conehead? I think not.

4. Correct spelling is a real plus. I'm a *terrible* speller but I try to look over my posts, especially if I'm arguing a position. It certain affects how many folks will view your post.

and finally...

5. Remember that if you are asserting something, the ball is in your court to provide the proof. You simply cannot say "The Bible says X so it must be true." and expect many folks to let you slide with that. My point in saying this is not to attack your belief system. My criticism is directed at your approach. The Bible may in fact be 100% true. But if you cannot prove this, it is difficult to use it as a foundation for building an argument.

Cheers,
Sort:)
 
muscleman said:


LOL, this is a subject, this is NOT the 1 million dollar challenge. The 1 million dollar challenge is what I can perform, I will not say it yet until I get real good arguments.

Yep...Just as I thought, you are a kook.
C'mon tell me what you are going to do....What can you perform? A disappearing act up your own alimentary tract?
You come here with Bands playing and fireworks displays claiming you are in possesion of some brilliant new proof of the existence of some supernatural being, then you trot out a rehash of intelligent design, give me a break.

Now please call me names....I just love it....Lol.
 
Khalid01 said:
I am violating my own plea in this post, but please listen, my friends. Do not reply to this troll, of all the trolls in the world, none is more obvious than this one. If you can't resist replying, just ask for this seemingly uneducated person to edit their post to make it reasonably understandable and readable. Otherwise, just allow this clockwork idiot to spin down and out of existence. Go busy yourself with a lesser troll, or read an Assimov novel.

The End of Eternity is my favorite one. :)
 
We've heard all of these nonsensical arguements before. They are nothing but fallacy. You can prove god's existence, well tell us how you're gonna do it and then maybe your "challenge" will be entertained.

What are you gonna do, pray for Randi to become blind? That's been tried before.

So far, you haven't provided a speck of evidence for your god's existence. I'll tell you what I'd accept as evidence of god, something that is empirical and will convince the scientific community of god's existence. There you go, it shouldn't be that hard.

:rolleyes:
 
I have already proven the existence of Big Daddy. . .

. . . except he is either evil, incompetent, or irrelevant, or some combination of the three.

I claim half of the $1,000,000.

. . . unless, of course, he does not exist.

Sad that the poor boy cannot find the humanity to address the child.

--J.D.
 
Re: Proof of God's existence! 1 million dollar challenge at the end! Randi better pay-up!

OK, Muscleman, my old friend, lets look at your proof. Before I start, let me say thay I'm nor out to disprove the existence of God. I'm an agnostic, and I dont think the existence of God can be disproved.

muscleman said:
*snip*

The first life form to evolve from earth is "Cell", the building blocks of life. It would take about 40,000 of your red blood cells to fill this letter O. A cell is alive-as alive as you are. It "breathes," takes in food, & gets rid of wastes. It also grows & reproduces (creates its own kind). And in time, it dies. An optical microscope can magnify a cell up to 2,000 times. An electron microscope can magnify a cell by 1 million times. An ant magnified 200,000 times would be more than 21/2 miles (4 kilometers) long. But even with such tremendous magnification, the detailed structure of some cell parts still cannot be seen.


Is it possible that a detailed and complex form happens by chance w/out an intelligent cause?

Yes, there is quite a chance. The primordial cells, or protocells were MUCH simpler than even the simplest cells we see to-day. They were really just a compound of primitive proteins. All these primitive proteins have been created in the laboratory, under conditions that probably existed in the early Earth.

Maybe there's a chance that computers could b formed by a series of hurricane/lightning/earthquake/ by Chance. Perhaps the lightning struck some rocks in place which caused it 2 melt & created wirings then the wind placed it in location where in *snip*

Nobody ever claimed that cells like the ones we know to-day just poped into existence. Bear in mind that those early biological entities had no competition.

For many years of observation & study, biochemists can only limitedly identify & label what’s contained in a cell, but never successful in creating one. *snip*

There is still things to be know about cells, but we have discovered most by now. No, we have not yet created one. Actually I dont know how hard we are trying, after all, it would be of limited use.


To use "natural physics" as an explanation for the atom to transform into a cell is not only unscientific, but also impossible!*snip*

We cannot explain EXACTLY how it happened, but it is far from impossible.

Don’t try to compare organisms to automobiles, car parts can wait before creating the rest of the parts, did u actually think there’s a brain lying around waiting for the rest of the parts to develop*snip*

This is a Creationist argument. I know you are a devout Catholic. Your Church accepts Evolution, so we need not discuss this.

Ill make it easier for atheist, lets make a magic step over the impossible of the impossible, let’s just pretend that scientists were able to successfully build a cell together! Even then Ill still believe in God for the fact is, intelligence is the cause of the detailed & complex effect (scientist effort) not series of tornado, earthquake, & lightning. If the super impossibility of creating a cell were made possible, it still won’t survive for it requires one or more of its own kind! (Observed & studied) Lets make another super ultimate impossibility possible, let’s just say it survived, how then did u expect it to multiply from a single cell considering the lifespan of it is very short?

Uh, this is simle ignorance. Single-celled organisms multiply by dividing. A single cell can multiply. This is easily observable and common biological knowledge.

If the dinosaurs with ultimate defense mechanism became instinct, how did u expect a defenseless delicate cell survive & replicate? By accident, coincidence, "chance", magic?

Well, it was more or less alone. An entire Earth, and no competition.

Evolution take is there was an earth w/a pond, hydrogen, methane & ammonia were in the pond & when lightning struck amino acids were formed, this has been demonstrated in the lab. Not all aminos were formed, however. Amino can form protein, & protein formed the first single cell. We have grave problems here because no one explains where the lightning, hydrogen, methane & ammonia came from & how to get around the missing aminos which are required for the over 200,000 proteins required for the single cell. No one can explain where ammonia, methane, hydrogen come from,

Dead wrong! Thide sustances were abundant on the early Earth, they are abundant in the Universe, and they are still abundant here to-day, but most are now tied up in more complex compounds.

but for the sake of sorry atheist, lets move on; Lets just say ammonia, methane, hydrogen popped out of nowhere magically & it formed amino acids/proteins thanks to lightning, the first single cell is composed of proteins, so what? So what if you can find a spare leg, heart, lungs, or arms out there? Does it mean that lightning, wind, & earthquake can gather the body parts together & create a living being? Do you think the wind will carry the arms, then the earthquake will shake the heart, &then the lightning will glue them together, &later on the spare parts became a living breathing person!? That’s absurd.

This is an Intelligent Design argument. We could look into that, but you should not need it, as your church accepts Evolution.

So what if lightning can create amino *snip* this HAVE NO SCIENTIFIC PROOF, NEVER HAVE AND NEVER EVER WILL. PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION.the impossible of the impossible.

You are now repeating yourself. It has not been scientifically PROVED how life started. it has, however, been shown how it probably stared.


I don’t care what theory you use, *snip*top of the paper isn’t going to bring the red ink to life, weirdo.

You are now raving. Strong language wont prove your point.

Another especially strong evidence of God is the so-called anthropic principle, according to which the universe seems to have been specially designed from the beginning for human life to evolve. If the temperature of the primal fireball that resulted from the big bang some fifteen to twenty billion yrs ago, which was the beginning of our universe, had been a trillionth of a degree colder or hotter, the carbon molecule that is the foundation of all organic life could never have developed. The number of possible universes is trillions of trillions: only one of them could support human life: this one. Sounds suspiciously like a plot. *snip*

You are mistaking cause and effect. The present universe offers an exhaustive range of conditions. The Earth is not ideal for our life forms in order to accomodate us, its the other way around: We are here because this is the place where conditions are favorable.[
/b]

But doesn’t evolution explain everything without a divine designer? Just the opposite: Evolution is a beautiful example of design, a great clue to God. There’s very good scientific evidence for the evolving, ordered appearance of species, from simple to complex. But there is no scientific proof of natural selection as the mechanism of evolution, Natural selection "explains" the emergence of higher forms w/out intelligence design by the survival-of-the-fittest principle. But this is sheer theory. There is no evidence that abstract, theoretical thinking or altruistic love makes it easier for man to survive. How did they evolve then?

You are talking through your hat. Evolution is not sheer theoty, it is supported by a heavy amount of observation. Noe only that, but observations that seem to contradict evolution as the origin of humand are practically non-existent.

Furthermore, could the design that obviously now exist in a man & in a human brain come from something with less or no design? Such an explanation violates the principle of causality, which states that u cant get more in the effect than u had in the cause. If there is intelligence in the effect (man), there must b intelligence in the cause. But a universe ruled by blind chance has no intelligence.

How about the intelligence in some animals? Nobody ever claimed it happened by chance.

Therefore there must b a cause for human intelligence that transcends the universe: a mind behind the physical universe. (Most of the great scientists (Albert Einstein, etc.) have believed in such a mind, by the way, even those who did not accept any revealed religion.)

This doesn't follow at all. Einstein was a great physicist; this doesnt make him an authority on religion.

What created the first life form? Ask yourself that question. We have an explanation, we call it God. *snip*

You have that explanation. You might be right, but there is no proof, period.

"In the beggining was the Word, the Word was *snip* However, we disagree with "chance, coincidence, or Super Luck" as the cause for the extremely detailed & complex life form "cell", as I wrote above, that's already proven through scientific demonstration to be impossible!

Seems you have no idea what "scientific proof" means



Hans
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:


Some of their chunky soups are actually good. And also the Campbell's Select. Also, Wolfgang Puck soups are good.

Then there's 'Healthy Choice' soups, which have a lot less salt in 'em, and are good anyway.

That's one of my pet peeves, BTW. People who think soup should have a little less salt in it than would make it a solid crystal of salt with noodles and veggies embedded in it. If it "needs salt" it's easy enough to add at the table. It's nigh impossible to remove if some nitwit puts too much into the pot.

A lot of soups blow your whole recommended daily allowance of sodium before you ever think of adding crackers.
 
sorgoth said:





It's VERY possible. The chances of it happening on earth are incredibly small, yes, but so are the chances of winning the lottery. SOMEBODY has to win. Just because of the immense amount of occurences that has happened throughout the universe in all of time, it's actually pretty likely that some random line of events WOULD create a cell-like form. There was a TINY chance of it happening on each planet, really. When you think of the sheer number of planets likely to exist...It would happen, eventually.


Here u go again, a person who made a comment when he didnt even understand what I was trying to say..

A claim of "chance" need a proof of its possibility..

Lottery is a good example of claim of chance, its proven. Though winning are slim, there are others who have won,...So this claim of chance is proven..

However, the claim that nature can create cell by chance, HAVE NO PROOF OF ITS POSSIBILITY.. If u cant provide proof of chance, then you shouldnt claim of its existence by chance.. Otherwise ANYTHING CAN BE A CHANCE, might as well claim that the Pyramids of Egypt were created by rocks and woods flying around carried by series of tornado and earthquake in 10 yrs.....

Once again a cell eexisting by chancem CONTAINS NO EVIDENCE of its possibility, this is a lie.........

GOT IT?
 
justsaygnosis said:
Where have the miracle workers gone?
It appears they disappear whenever a camera shows up.
I guess the guardian angels were out for coffee on 9/11/01 or didn't care that not only were the towers going to be hit but all the bloodshed that came and is yet to occur would happen. But 9/11/01 is only recent, we've been killing each other over religion for millenia. Guardian angels don't bring down psychopaths, physical force does. We are left with the choice of killing them ourself or waiting for age to take them off the planet.
I amazed this god took such painstaking effort to make homo-sapien and constituted him/her to be so incomplete.
It is often quoted, "God's folly is greater than man's wisdom."
Perhaps that's true but the problem is that quote has been used for centuries by idiots who want to be god's chosen agents and rule the world.


No one posting on this board oversees the million dollar challenge proccess. Get a form and get in line.

Face it kid, God is not going to strike you with a lightning rod if u chose to have sex before marriage. God is not going to stop you from stealing candies from the store. God is not going to stop you from going to the mall. God is not going to stop you from running every morning..

GOD IS NOT GOING TO STOP YOU OR ANYONE FROM DOING WHAT THEY WISH TO DO IN THIER LIFE. OTHERWISE MIGHT AS WELL TURN THEM INTO A VEGETABLE, INCAPABLE OF ANY OF THEM..


GOT IT CHILD?
 
Frostbite said:
Science evolves, religion does not. What was magic a 100 years ago is today scientific fact. All those things we'll be able to explain when the time comes.

Ok, you need to shut-up. Your too dumb in this thread. Christianity (the one and original one the catholic church) have been so advanced compared to how small it started in Rome. While science struggled 600 yrs ago, the church struggled with it....

FACT HERE IS CATHOLIC CHURCH HAVE OUR OWN BIO-CHEMIST, AND SCIENTISTS UPDATING NEW RESEARCH AND SHARING THE INFO TO THE POPE....

Science is just a SMALL part of the catholic church..

Go talk somewhere else, dont ruin an intelligent debate (LOL, if that exist), yur too dumb to b here... ...
 
muscleman said:



Here u go again, a person who made a comment when he didnt even understand what I was trying to say..

A claim of "chance" need a proof of its possibility..

Lottery is a good example of claim of chance, its proven. Though winning are slim, there are others who have won,...So this claim of chance is proven..

However, the claim that nature can create cell by chance, HAVE NO PROOF OF ITS POSSIBILITY.. If u cant provide proof of chance, then you shouldnt claim of its existence by chance.. Otherwise ANYTHING CAN BE A CHANCE, might as well claim that the Pyramids of Egypt were created by rocks and woods flying around carried by series of tornado and earthquake in 10 yrs.....

Once again a cell eexisting by chancem CONTAINS NO EVIDENCE of its possibility, this is a lie.........

GOT IT?

Your grammer is about as sound as your thinking musclehead. It's not like modern cells were simply thrown together by nature. The process took millions of years. Comparing this to the pyramids being built by random forces like tornadoes and earthquakes simply makes no sense.
 
Earthborn said:
You seem to misunderstand what evidence is needed to win the JREF challenge. It is not about trying to convince anyone, it's about proving something objectively! That means that even if you convince anyone you still do not win.

Suppose someone claims that he can levitate. Does he win by convincing someone that he can? No! He wins by levitating!

So you can't ask any skeptic what kind of evidence will convince them. What you need to do is show evidence that will convince everyone (who has eyes in his head and half a brain)!

Trying to prove God by trying to poke holes in evolution has been done a million times and is always unsuccessful. The most you can achieve by that is proving that the theory of evolution is unable to explain certain phenomena. It is in no way proof that God is needed to explain them.

If you want to prove the existence of God, you need to find positive evidence: you need to find God and take him to Randi where He can be tested whether He really is God. Finding a talking burning bush (not a president) is not enough, because that would only prove the existence of talking burning bushes (which will win you the million dollars) not the existence of God.

You see, the million dollar prize is meant for paranormal/metaphysical phenomena that are directly observable. It can't be used for the existence of God (yet?).


Again, another person making comments and not knowing what I was talking about..

Evolution is fine, its common sense that life evolve, from conception to adulthood, caterpillars to butterflies. Thats just common sense, we evolve in millions of yrs, the church have accepted that fact already.

Now my 1 million dollar challenge is something I can perform, I can do it live if u want, AND IM NOT LYING... 100% of thew people I told this to didnt believe me, because it is supernatural phenomenon, but I havent given them the chance to see it yet, because this only happened to me lately, so I decided to give the 1 million dollar a shot.....And again, I wont say it yet till later......
 
Renfield said:


Your grammer is about as sound as your thinking musclehead. It's not like modern cells were simply thrown together by nature. The process took millions of years. Comparing this to the pyramids being built by random forces like tornadoes and earthquakes simply makes no sense.

Ok this is what you are trying to say......

There was void, nothing, & we came from nowhere like mathematics "-we r,-1234567890=1234567890 (So if your a teen & mom caught you holding 3 bottles of beer, just tell her “be quite mom, the 3 bottles of beer came out of nowhere, it was -123=123, formula E=MC2.”). Then accidentally, a cell appeared! Don’t know how but I think the hurricane, lightning, & earthquake did it by "LUCK" (Physics). Then the single cell survived like a barbarian & "accidentally & luckily" got bigger. But this didn’t happen in one single step, but through random luck/chance (Super Extra Luck). The nucleus was luckily made first, this guy u wont believe it, he was very strong & was waiting until Mr. cytoplasm appeared. Then later on mitochondria accidentally appeared, he then said to cytoplasm & nucleus "sorry guys it took me 100,000,000,000,000,000 yrs to exist, its just that Mr. earthquake didn’t shake me right at first but it doesn’t matter, I accidentally appeared now, thanks for waiting guys", then ribosome accidentally appeared, then thousands & thousands of other parts accidentally appeared to join the rest of the crew until it became a fully develop cell.

Men u wouldn’t believe it but for some weird reasons the first parts were mysteriously strong & survived on their own for millions of years w/out any help until the rest of the parts appeared to become a fully developed cell. Mr. Nucleus because he was waiting so long, he was mad at the lightning & wind saying "Punks, why did u guys make me wait this long! Damn it lightning, create Mr. cytoplasm quicker next time ok!" this cell was very strong, strong enough to survive alone & replicate itself until it became trillions & trillions & turned into a fish!! This cell is over trillions years old waiting all those time for the rest of the body parts to appear! If I were u, I wouldn’t mess around with this cell, I bet 100 bucks it could knock out Mike Tyson in 3 rounds. This fish then became land mammals, then dinosaurs, then here we are today zillions of zillions of years later, we are all accidents. (In this case, u can put a raisin outside & millions of yrs from now that sun dried grape will turn into dinosaurs, fishes, birds, etc., thanks to the simple laws of physics). There’s only one choice left, God. Accept God or you’ll share this theory, the "Delusionallostkids Theory".

So what is your theory called? Delusionallostkids theory?
 
muscleman said:

... 100% of thew people I told this to didnt believe me, because it is supernatural phenomenon, but I havent given them the chance to see it yet, because this only happened to me lately, so I decided to give the 1 million dollar a shot.....And again, I wont say it yet till later......
Somebody is off their medicine.
 

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