Cont: President Trump: Part 3

[CapelDodger]

From everything I've read, the presumption of the system is that an authenticated order from the President is lawful and must be executed.

Authenticated by whom? And confirmed as authenticated by whom else should the question be asked, as it will be?

WW3 is going to be a goldmine for lawyers before it even starts, which guarantees it won't start. Any war which does start will be called something else.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

This is a perfect example of the Trump WH is mired in its own incompetence.

Trump: "We can't make mistakes... go ahead, Ken."
"I'm Chuck."​

He just doesn't give a ****.

"Doesn't give a Chuck," even.

 

[trustbutverify]

Meanwhile, I don't agree with the idea of "unconscious racism". I think it's a cop-out; a means to retreat from clear, evidence-based discussion and maintain one's claims. Racism is a view. A belief. It's conscious alright, and by making it so that everybody's a racist, they just don't know it, distracts from discussing actual racism.

You think the only racists are those who self identify as such? The vast majority of bigots deny/swear they're not, especially to themselves.

Virtually everyone has internalized racist and other bigoted patterns- that doesn't make them bigots or racists. Allowing those patterns to inform judgement, statements and actions without even the slightest effort at self examination does.

 

[CapelDodger]

Even so, it's still an indicator of epic scale buffoonery.

Epic hardly approaches it.

That degree of blistering incompetence makes a horrific event more likely.

It actually puts everybody on their guard.

The Trump White House could never have invaded Iraq as the Cheney/Rove White House did. Trump simply isn't going to be given the scope that even Bush Jr had - and Bush Jr was a normal human being. Nobody ever disputed that. Simple, but normal. Trump simply isn't normal. He's a narcissistic sociopath who's never experienced a moment's intimacy in his entire life. Even his wives are discardable commodities, and his children extensions of himself.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Ivanka Trump is making her White House job official

Ivanka Trump is changing course and will become a government employee in the coming days, a White House official told CNN Wednesday.

President Donald Trump's eldest daughter will be an unpaid employee working in the West Wing.​

About that nepotism...

Ivanka Trump's elevation has prompted critics to note the potential violation of the nepotism law, passed in 1967, that says no public official -- from the President down to a low-level manager at a federal agency -- may hire or promote a relative.

But the law states that any appointee found to have violated the law is "not entitled to pay" by the federal government, which appears to offer the opportunity for Trump and Kushner to forgo paychecks while still serving the administration.​

This appears to be something (loophole or feature?) that only the wealthy can take advantage of.

 

[CapelDodger]

Virtually everyone has internalized racist and other bigoted patterns- that doesn't make them bigots or racists. Allowing those patterns to inform judgement, statements and actions without even the slightest effort at self examination does.

Can we just leave it at that?

Let's talk about Trump. The President that's down with the black people, and the communities those black people live in, which are really crime-ridden and awful because he hasn't been in charge.

 

[phiwum]

All bias is not racism or sexism, correct.



The two aren't mutually exclusive.



I already told you this: it has to be conscious. In fact you've been arguing against me on this. How could you possible now forget?



I didn't say it wasn't a problem. But let's call things what they are. If Turtle is right, everybody is a racist, and the term loses all possible meaning.

I guess I get your point, but it's one of mere semantics now. I have some race based biases, and I'd wager you do too. Whether we call that racism or not comes down to what we mean by racism.

 

[CapelDodger]

Ivanka Trump is making her White House job official

Ivanka Trump is changing course and will become a government employee in the coming days, a White House official told CNN Wednesday.

President Donald Trump's eldest daughter will be an unpaid employee working in the West Wing.​

About that nepotism...

Ivanka Trump's elevation has prompted critics to note the potential violation of the nepotism law, passed in 1967, that says no public official -- from the President down to a low-level manager at a federal agency -- may hire or promote a relative.

But the law states that any appointee found to have violated the law is "not entitled to pay" by the federal government, which appears to offer the opportunity for Trump and Kushner to forgo paychecks while still serving the administration.​

This appears to be something (loophole or feature?) that only the wealthy can take advantage of.

Can it be long before we hear about this sort of thing happening with every new Presidency?

 

[Belz...]

You think the only racists are those who self identify as such?

No, that is not what I said. Please don't assume that I mean anything more than what I say.

I guess I get your point, but it's one of mere semantics now. I have some race based biases, and I'd wager you do too. Whether we call that racism or not comes down to what we mean by racism.

Exactly, but I think using racism too broadly makes us miss the deliberate acts of discrimination and makes racism more harmful.

 

[NoahFence]

Can it be long before we hear about this sort of thing happening with every new Presidency?

In the event we survive long enough to have another Democrat as president, Republicans will then complain about it, followed shortly by them making a law against it.

 

[newyorkguy]

Authenticated by whom? And confirmed as authenticated by whom else should the question be asked, as it will be?...

That question has already been answered, based on a news report in Bloomberg News (and you can find many more like it).

If the president was to activate a launch code on his 'football' that code goes to the war room at the Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia. The senior officer on duty then authenticates it has come from the president by replying with a challenge code, a brief phonetic sequence. The president then consults the "biscuit," the laminated card the president or a military aide carry at all times, and replies. Again, it's a brief phonetic code. If the president gives the correct reply the order to deploy is flashed to units all over the world. The news report estimates from the president ordering a strike to the missiles in the air is five minutes. Link

No one is suggesting this is about to happen but if it ever was going to happen this is undoubtedly the president who'd do it. Running naked slathered with feces? How about becoming morbidly depressed, delusional, deciding to end it all and take the whole stinking world with him.

Look at the photo below. Someone posing with the military aide carrying the code briefcase. In a dining room at Mar-a-Lago. This is what gives the security people nightmares. How could a terrorist cell exploit an opportunity like this? They can see it on Facebook the same way everyone else can.

Trump scares people, especially here in New York where we have had a steady diet of this guy for thirty-five years. Every time this man has gotten away from his core business, developing real estate, he not only failed he failed spectacularly. The USFL, Trump Shuttle, the casinos. None of them even exist anymore. Now he's president of the United States...

 

[phiwum]

No, that is not what I said. Please don't assume that I mean anything more than what I say.



Exactly, but I think using racism too broadly makes us miss the deliberate acts of discrimination and makes racism more harmful.

I agree that I don't deliberately hold any racist views, and I presume that you don't either. That said, I seem to have some unintentional biases based on race, and I bet you do too. So, our difference is merely semantic.

 

[phiwum]

That question has already been answered, based on a news report in Bloomberg News (and you can find many more like it).

If the president was to activate a launch code on his 'football' that code goes to the war room at the Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia. The senior officer on duty then authenticates it has come from the president by replying with a challenge code, a brief phonetic sequence. The president then consults the "biscuit," the laminated card the president or a military aide carry at all times, and replies. Again, it's a brief phonetic code. If the president gives the correct reply the order to deploy is flashed to units all over the world. The news report estimates from the president ordering a strike to the missiles in the air is five minutes. Link

No one is suggesting this is about to happen but if it ever was going to happen this is undoubtedly the president who'd do it. Running naked slathered with feces? How about becoming morbidly depressed, delusional, deciding to end it all and take the whole stinking world with him.

Look at the photo below. Someone posing with the military aide carrying the code briefcase. In a dining room at Mar-a-Lago. This is what gives the security people nightmares. How could a terrorist cell exploit an opportunity like this? They can see it on Facebook the same way everyone else can.

Trump scares people, especially here in New York where we have had a steady diet of this guy for thirty-five years. Every time this man has gotten away from his core business, developing real estate, he not only failed he failed spectacularly. The USFL, Trump Shuttle, the casinos. None of them even exist anymore. Now he's president of the United States...

To be fair, he was good at reality TV.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Might I suggest that conscious vs unconscious comes into play in defining a racist?

"I hate black people" - racist

"Black people or OK, but inferior to whites on some levels" - racist

"Black people are fine" (but exhibits subconscious bias) - not racist.

Since there's not a lot you can do about your subconscious biases, is it really fair to be painted a a racist if they exist?

And I would venture they exist at some level for everyone, though I might be wrong on that.

 

[phiwum]

Might I suggest that conscious vs unconscious comes into play in defining a racist?

"I hate black people" - racist

"Black people or OK, but inferior to whites on some levels" - racist

"Black people are fine" (but exhibits subconscious bias) - not racist.

Since there's not a lot you can do about your subconscious biases, is it really fair to be painted a a racist if they exist?

And I would venture they exist at some level for everyone, though I might be wrong on that.

It's merely a matter of semantics. The first two quotes exhibit egregious racism, to be sure. The third quote is apparently from a person who is not overtly racist, but has some racist biases. Whether we want to call him racist or not is a mere matter of semantics.

I am, if certain online tests are to be believed, in the camp of the third man. I wish I weren't, I wish that I was in the camp of the unmentioned fourth man, one who "doesn't see color".

 

[CapelDodger]

In the event we survive long enough to have another Democrat as president, Republicans will then complain about it, followed shortly by them making a law against it.

You're predicating the future on the past. If the Trump phaenomenon has taught us anything it's not to do that.

That said, you're probably right, but they'll have lost all credibility by then. Republicans can hardly deny any more that they only exist in reaction to the zeitgeist, which they would like to wish away.

 

[Bob001]

.....
Trump scares people, especially here in New York where we have had a steady diet of this guy for thirty-five years. Every time this man has gotten away from his core business, developing real estate, he not only failed he failed spectacularly. The USFL, Trump Shuttle, the casinos. None of them even exist anymore. Now he's president of the United States...

I just note that he wasn't really all that successful as a developer either. He mostly licenses his name to people who, god help us, think it means "luxury."

 

[Babbylonian]

Might I suggest that conscious vs unconscious comes into play in defining a racist?

"I hate black people" - racist

"Black people or OK, but inferior to whites on some levels" - racist

"Black people are fine" (but exhibits subconscious bias) - not racist.

Since there's not a lot you can do about your subconscious biases, is it really fair to be painted a a racist if they exist?

And I would venture they exist at some level for everyone, though I might be wrong on that.

What to do about your subconscious biases: Don't exhibit them. Act as if you don't have them.

If one is exhibiting their subconscious biases (based on "race") then, yeah, it's fair to call them racist. This really isn't rocket science.

 

[phiwum]

What to do about your subconscious biases: Don't exhibit them. Act as if you don't have them.

If one is exhibiting their subconscious biases (based on "race") then, yeah, it's fair to call them racist. This really isn't rocket science.

Er, um, sorry to state the obvious, but the thing about subconscious biases is that (1) you aren't necessarily aware that you have them and (2) they might influence how you behave.

Now, (2) is the significant point, since I have some evidence that I have unconscious biases, so (1) doesn't seem to apply. But (2) might. I might view students differently based on their races, for instance. I hope to gosh that isn't so, but it might be so. That's why we care about subconscious biases.

 

[Babbylonian]

Er, um, sorry to state the obvious, but the thing about subconscious biases is that (1) you aren't necessarily aware that you have them and (2) they might influence how you behave.

Now, (2) is the significant point, since I have some evidence that I have unconscious biases, so (1) doesn't seem to apply. But (2) might. I might view students differently based on their races, for instance. I hope to gosh that isn't so, but it might be so. That's why we care about subconscious biases.

If you're exhibiting bias, you ought to be able to suss that out. If you can't, then you might need some sort of therapy to increase your self-awareness.

In other words, if someone else can see your "subconscious bias" (based on "race") then you're being a racist. Take responsibility.

Frankly, people throw around the word "subconscious" like it's something magical that can't be controlled or repaired. It's simply not true, especially when people claim that their subconscious is causing them to say things or act in ways that their conscious mind wouldn't condone. Unless you have an actual mental illness or are taking mind-altering drugs, you know what you've done and said; don't pretend that you're out of control.