Premonition?

[JoeTheJuggler]

Yes, coincidence account for all premonitions. That has been well-established by the vast research done by skeptics.

P.S. Random element: The vast research consists of skeptics endlessly repeating a one-word mantra: "Coincidence."

You forget, Rodney, Random Element is a "hard core skeptic".

FWIW, there is no research needed to dismiss a perfectly ordinary occurrence as being perfectly ordinary. Are you ready to make a claim of something supernatural, Rodney?

Have you heard of Occam's Razor or the principal of parsimony?

 

[fuelair]

A missing -in -action hard-core skeptic it seems!!

 

[Humphreys]

Yes, coincidence account for all premonitions. That has been well-established by the vast research done by skeptics.

Imagine a Universe where there are, without doubt, no paranormal powers, and no such thing as premonitions.

Would events like the one mentioned in the OP still occur?

Yes or no, please. If not, I'd be very interested to hear your reasoning. I want to know how you distinguish between coincidence and premonition, and if you agree that we cannot in this case, I want you to justify your spitting in the face of Occam in implying the latter.

 

[baron]

Yes, coincidence account for all premonitions. That has been well-established by the vast research done by skeptics.

It's been reliably suggested that coincidence can account for many premonitions, not all. Nothing has actually been demonstrated.

EDIT: Sorry, I only saw that you were being sarcastic after I'd replied

 

[baron]

Imagine a Universe where there are, without doubt, no paranormal powers, and no such thing as premonitions.

Would events like the one mentioned in the OP still occur?

Yes or no, please. If not, I'd be very interested to hear your reasoning. I want to know how you distinguish between coincidence and premonition, and if you agree that we cannot in this case, I want you to justify your spitting in the face of Occam in implying the latter.

It's a matter of judgement. In this case there's no reason to assume that coincidence was not the explanation.

In other instances that may not be the case. I personally had an experience for which the explanation of coincidence would arguably stretch the definition of the word to illogical conclusions. Theoretically we could do away with every instance of known cause and effect by invoking the explanation of coincidence. Correct interpretation depends on judgement and common sense.

 

[Moochie]

Whatever it was the original poster experienced, it's no different to what I've experienced countless times, as I stated in my previous post here.

Throughout most of the 70s I drove a cab in this city of 3 million+, usually 60 to 80 hours each week.

When you're on the road that amount of time, you do develop your everyday senses to a level not known by occasional drivers.

Only I don't see anything odd about it -- no paranormal BS or anything else.

I don't see it as "premonition," but rather as rat cunning.

M.

 

[Starrman]

Was the radio on? Had the news covered a road accident that day?
The radio was probably on; however, I didn't remember hearing anything to trigger such a reaction.

Funny - you specifically remember that you have NEVER slowed down at a green light in all those years. But on this really special occasion, you can't remember what was on the radio.

In fact, it was only probably on.

I think you underestimate the clarity and reliability of human memory. Either the event did not quite transpire exactly as you recall, or you have in fact, slowed down at green lights before but have not remembered those times.

Or it was a 1 in a million lucky guess - many of which occur every single day.

 

[MondoAtheist]

Funny - you specifically remember that you have NEVER slowed down at a green light in all those years. But on this really special occasion, you can't remember what was on the radio.

In fact, it was only probably on.

I think you underestimate the clarity and reliability of human memory. Either the event did not quite transpire exactly as you recall, or you have in fact, slowed down at green lights before but have not remembered those times.

Or it was a 1 in a million lucky guess - many of which occur every single day.

One in a million shots happen all the time to everyone. And people want to see these as miracles instead of just probability. What was it Penn said;"Luck is just Probability taken personally." That sounds about right. I always thought the fact that I was alive was the the 'luckiest' thing that ever happened to me. I happened to be born in the right era,the right place, and I just happened to be born. Billions of planets out there, guess I just got 'lucky.' But honestly look at how many people are in the world, and how many have existed in time. The fact you're alive now is probably the biggest long shot ever for one person.


Like I said, theres lots of amazing and really cool things happening all the time. We don't need special powers to be any cooler than we already are. Sure it would be nice, but give us time to evolve a bit more. We're still pretty new.

 

[Rodney]

You forget, Rodney, Random Element is a "hard core skeptic".

FWIW, there is no research needed to dismiss a perfectly ordinary occurrence as being perfectly ordinary. Are you ready to make a claim of something supernatural, Rodney?

It certainly doesn't seem to be a perfectly ordinary story the way Random element told it. Now, I can't definitely claim something supernatural because I don't know all of the facts here. But there certainly have been many well-documented premonitions, such as Lincoln's eerily accurate dream of his assassination.

Have you heard of Occam's Razor or the principal of parsimony?

Yes, but assuming that there is something supernatural about premonitions, how would that ever be proven to your satisfaction?

 

[Reno]

Yes, but assuming that there is something supernatural about premonitions, how would that ever be proven to your satisfaction?

All the claimant would have to do is to specify a date, time, place and event in advance that could not be predicted using scientific means. When the event comes to pass at the time and place predicted, the premonition will be deemed to have been foretold using means outside the current knowledge of science.

 

[Rodney]

All the claimant would have to do is to specify a date, time, place and event in advance that could not be predicted using scientific means. When the event comes to pass at the time and place predicted, the premonition will be deemed to have been foretold using means outside the current knowledge of science.

It might have been interesting if the challenge had been around in 1979 and a man named David Booth had known about it. In May 1979, he is reported to have foreseen one of the worst aviation accidents in U.S. history. According to -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_191

"Arthur C. Clarke's World of Strange Powers reports the case of David Booth. In 1979, he had a series of recurring premonitory dreams that tormented him for ten consecutive nights. He saw a plane take off from an airport, bank steeply and then crash. On 22 May he called the FAA at Greater Cincinnati International Airport, American Airlines, and a psychiatrist at University of Cincinnati. The authorities took him seriously -- the FAA had guessed from Booth's description that the plane was a DC-10 -- but they could do nothing about it. The accident occurred three days after Booth's dreams in almost exactly the way Booth envisioned. Leonard Nimoy's documentary TV series In Search Of... featured an episode entitled Air Disaster Predictions which covered the case of Flight 191 and its possible prediction by Booth."

And that same link states:

"Actress Lindsay Wagner, TV's Bionic Woman, was scheduled to fly on the ill-fated plane, but she felt uneasy about it just prior to boarding. As a result, Wagner decided to skip the flight, a decision that saved her life . . . Power-pop band Shoes were also scheduled to be on the flight, but at the last minute switched to another flight scheduled for the following Tuesday."

 

[Reno]

Do you have any proof that his premonition was documented before the event?

 

[Sunstar]

re

It would be nearly impossible for a person with so-called premonition type experiences to predict the future because the future hasn't happened to them yet for them to remember it.

I personally think this phenomenon does exist because it happens to me quite frequently.

It is worth pointing out that there is probably just as much chance (but not quite) for the event to happen to be explained by mundane means. So there really isn't any real way of proving these things, and Randi is safe.

 

[Cuddles]

It might have been interesting if the challenge had been around in 1979 and a man named David Booth had known about it.

The challenge started in 1964.

It would be nearly impossible for a person with so-called premonition type experiences to predict the future because the future hasn't happened to them yet for them to remember it.

I personally think this phenomenon does exist because it happens to me quite frequently.

This just doesn't make sense. If you can't predict the future, how can you have premonitions? That's exactly what premonitions are. Either it is possible to predict the future or it is not. You can't possibly say that it is impossible and yet still believe that it happens.

 

[fls]

Imagine a Universe where there are, without doubt, no paranormal powers, and no such thing as premonitions.

Would events like the one mentioned in the OP still occur?

I like the way you put that - if a universe in which paranormal powers and premonitions are proposed to exist is indistiguishable from one in which they don't exist, what would you assume?

Occam is no hero of Rodney's though, so I don't think the idea of spitting in his face will generate a sense of chagrin (if that's what you were going for).

Linda

 

[Sunstar]

re

This just doesn't make sense. If you can't predict the future, how can you have premonitions? That's exactly what premonitions are. Either it is possible to predict the future or it is not. You can't possibly say that it is impossible and yet still believe that it happens.[/quote]


Well, i just typed a lengthy reply and the system buggered up and i couldn't copy and paste before posting.

You are absolutely correct. If premonition means a person can predict the future a long time before it happens, all good and proper i say. This isn't my personal experience however. And now that this forum has swallowed my previous post i cannot be arsed to retype anything.

Briefly, i can have a dream and later on certain parts of the dream will occur in my waking life again. A strange subjective feeling accompanies this "remembrance" and i get a type of flashback of the dream. Sometimes, it is not neccesary to dream - these things can happen when awake too.

There, now let me go and bash my head against a brick wall.

 

[Starrman]

Briefly, i can have a dream and later on certain parts of the dream will occur in my waking life again. A strange subjective feeling accompanies this "remembrance" and i get a type of flashback of the dream. Sometimes, it is not neccesary to dream - these things can happen when awake too.

There, now let me go and bash my head against a brick wall.

Let me ask you this - do you think it would be possible for none of the billions of dreams that occur every night to come true, by chance alone?

 

[Rodney]

Do you have any proof that his premonition was documented before the event?

I'm working on that. I e-mailed the FAA in Cincinnati, but they said their 1979 records were routinely destroyed long ago.

 

[Rodney]

The challenge started in 1964.

Seriously? What was the prize?

 

[Rodney]

I like the way you put that - if a universe in which paranormal powers and premonitions are proposed to exist is indistiguishable from one in which they don't exist, what would you assume?

Occam is no hero of Rodney's though, so I don't think the idea of spitting in his face will generate a sense of chagrin (if that's what you were going for).

Linda

Neither this response nor any other has yet addressed my question: "Assuming that there is something supernatural about premonitions, how would that ever be proven to your satisfaction?