Prayin' kid

[Chimera]

When you say you pick students for a prize, do you mean you do it randomly, or based on their achievements and behavior for the day? If it's the latter, then I think you could, without disparaging prayer, remind him that it's his hard work and good behavior that got him picked. But that's about the extent of what you can do; I agree with the others in this thread that you can't (and shouldn't) try to "prove" him wrong.

Yes, that's a good point. I put a ticket with the child's name in a box when I catch them doing something good, and at the end of the day I pick five tickets. So, praying wouldn't help at all if he'd been a heel all day. Maybe I can hint at this, at least.

That being said, it annoys the crap out of me that you have to make that distinction. It's yet another example of religious beliefs getting special deference. Examining finger crossing is okay, but prayer off limits. It just supports the irrational notion that criticizing the belief is attacking the believer. It's crap.

Yes, totally. There are plenty of other beliefs of theirs that I am supposed to challenge...such as, one cup of water is still one cup of water, even if you pour it into a tall, skinny container. Most six-year-olds don't believe that one until you do some experimentation. Prayer is irritatingly exempt from this kind of scrutiny.

 

[l0rca]

Maybe you should teach at a higher grade level? If you want to influence kids to think skeptically, doing so in the 7th grade is much better. They'll better remember the lesson, and because of their independance are much less apt to go home and tell mommy.

 

[quixotecoyote]

Maybe you should teach at a higher grade level? If you want to influence kids to think skeptically, doing so in the 7th grade is much better. They'll better remember the lesson, and because of their independance are much less apt to go home and tell mommy.

Doubtful. By that age they'll have figured out the shitstorm they can kick up by doing it intentionally. Ask me about the time my high school went on strike over a sexual harassment rumor.

 

[plumjam]

Alternatively you could take another tack and demonstrate to the rest of the class that by believing in the efficacy of prayer little Freddie is not in bad company:

Jesus Christ, Muhammad, Guru Nanak, St. Francis of Assisi, Krishna, the Dalai Lama, Ramana Maharshi, Ramakrishna, Padre Pio, Rumi, Hafiz, Meher Baba, Maximilian Kolbe etc etc..
If little Freddie turns out like any of these he won't have done badly.

Don't worry, as he gets older he'll see that prayer should be done with unselfish motives.

 

[Cello Man]

Alternatively you could take another tack and demonstrate to the rest of the class that by believing in the efficacy of prayer little Freddie is not in bad company:

Jesus Christ, Muhammad, Guru Nanak, St. Francis of Assisi, Krishna, the Dalai Lama, Ramana Maharshi, Ramakrishna, Padre Pio, Rumi, Hafiz, Meher Baba, Maximilian Kolbe etc etc...

Torquemada believed in prayer, too. So does Osama bin Laden. But using that as a legitimate argument against prayer would be silly because it's guilt by association, a logical fallacy. Your approach of honor by association is logically flawed for the same reason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy#Honor_by_association

 

[triadboy]

Alternatively you could take another tack and demonstrate to the rest of the class that by believing in the efficacy of prayer little Freddie is not in bad company:

Yeah but if you just flip coins - which produces the same return as prayer does - then you don't have to waste Sundays in a special building where the invisible creature lives.

 

[The Grave]

I teach to all levels...

I teach first grade, and I try to incorporate my skepticism when I can. We have frequent discussions and experiments about whether or not crossing your fingers gets you your wish. My last year's class got broken of that belief pretty quickly.

So, this new school year, I have a boy who prays at the drop of a hat. At the end of the day, I pick 5 student names for a little prize. He prays while I do this. Then, whenever he does get picked, he says, "See? Praying works!" He does this at other times when he wants something too. Other than this little oddity, he's a perfect student: smart, well-behaved, and kind.

I've pretty much already made up my mind that I'm not even going to address it. Anything I do, no matter how well-meaning or gentle, would probably embarrass him, tick off his family, or worse. But, what do you guys think?

I have many (private) students of many different faiths and non-believers too.

Think of your morgage!

But, slither like a snake, around the corner of their defences.

Don't directly challenge or try to test their 'god' or 'faith'; you may want to adopt an open class discusion, so as not to 'pick' on anyone...

I believe in 'hounding' Faithers but not Children.

And people shouldn't have the rights to 'believe what ever they want' if it includes gay-hate, female/child abuse and inter-religious feuding. They should be shot, and decrease the surplus faulty gene pool!

 

[DoubtingStephen]

I agree with everyone else that you should not do anything to directly challenge this child's religious affliction, just as you should not challenge your students if they still believe in Yahweh Lite that brings them presents in a sleigh pulled by reindeer.

Eventually kids reach an age where they begin to question the fairy tales they were taught in their youth.

Teaching them critical thinking skills is certainly a good idea, because this will help them in every aspect of their lives.

 

[qayak]

I think you should talk to the parents about his disruption and let them know that if he does not stop you will be forced to demonstrate that his belief is a delusion in order to protect the minds of the other kids. In private, it is a private matter but if he drags it out in public, it is a public matter and fair game for examination.

If they don't correct his bad behaviour, put prayer to the crossed finger test.

 

[Eck]

I agree with your decision to not adress the issue head on, and pretty much for the reasons you state. By incorporating skepticism in your classes, as illustrated by the finger crossing experiment, you are providing him with the tools that might lead him to see the truth on his own, though probably down the road as he ages.

Continue to encourage critical thinking in your students by looking at noncontrversial issues and they will hopefully take it to heart enough that they'll use it to explore such questions of faith on their own. No need to expose yourself to the minefield of other people's religous sensibilities and the consequences that might involve, possibly even your removal from the classroom which might result in them not even learning the skill set for critical inquiry from another teacher.

Hats off to you for your lessons, I think the students have a great teacher.

 

[Beerina]

Is this picking of 5 random or just kids who stood out somehow that day?

In any case, you could do a statistical analysis of how many times each child has won. Perhaps this kid is behind the average.

Or you could make him cry by pointing out that, if prayer was actually working, then one of the following must be true:

1. The kid won, when he didn't actually deserve it, because God warped your, the teacher's, mind.

2. The kid won because he did well, but he did well because God helped him. So again, he didn't really deserve it, and technically cheated by getting help from God.


Eh, it's fun to imagine anyway.


Sam Kinison: I love how boxers always thank God after they win their match. What's the loser supposed to say? "I was doin' OK in there -- until Jesus made me lose!"

 

[Kochanski]

Alternatively you could take another tack and demonstrate to the rest of the class that by believing in the efficacy of prayer little Freddie is not in bad company:

Jesus Christ, Muhammad, Guru Nanak, St. Francis of Assisi, Krishna, the Dalai Lama, Ramana Maharshi, Ramakrishna, Padre Pio, Rumi, Hafiz, Meher Baba, Maximilian Kolbe etc etc..
If little Freddie turns out like any of these he won't have done badly.

Don't worry, as he gets older he'll see that prayer should be done with unselfish motives.

Oh sure, teach them a logical fallacy, right. Chimera has a hard enough time dealing with teaching them skepticism without adding that to the curriculum.