Possible application candidate

[Burner]

Greetings fellow skeptics,
I've been following these forums for a while but didn't feel the need to post anything, until yesterday when I discovered a possible application candidate. Here's the mail I sent to Jeff:

Dear Mr. Wagg:

I might have a possible application candidate but I need confirmation from you that it is indeed a paranormal claim. The candidate is my uncle, a war veteran who was wounded by a mortar shell which nearly blew off his entire foot. He claims he can sense the signal from the IR remote control, and not only does he say he can sense it, he says he feels excruciating pain when the IR beam from the remote is pointed over his foot. He had his ankle reconstructed but still has quite a large shrapnel in his foot which couldn't be surgically removed since it's touching some major nerves. Is it possible that the material (iron/lead or whatever it is they make mortar shells from) is somehow sensitive to IR wavelenght and sends signals through his nerve? I personally never heard of such a case, and neither did people in the skeptics channel. I am a skeptic myself and have been following the forums and haven't found any similar claim apart from that woman who claims she can sense wireless networks. I did a simple experiment with him where he could not see the remote and he did react when I pressed the remote key. However, before proceeding with further tests and application I need to know weather this actually is a paranormal claim at all. I don't want to bother my uncle since it really appears to hurt very badly and takes a while for the pain to subside.

What do you think about this claim as a possible application? Have you ever heard of a similar case?

 

[TheBoyPaj]

Does it work with all remote controls?

 

[Dumb All Over]

One sure-fire way to find out if his claim qualifies for the prize is to have him submit an application.

 

[Burner]

Does it work with all remote controls?

He says it works with pretty much every remote, some more some less. The one I used was your standard IR remote.

One sure-fire way to find out if his claim qualifies for the prize is to have him submit an application.

I will not bother my uncle with it any longer until I know 100% certain that this is a paranormal claim. I'm waiting for Jeff's final confirmation on this. The 'coulds, mights and probablies' aren't worth to put him trough pain.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Hi Burner,

Jeff Wagg's response will shed some light onto your inquiry.

Do you think this is paranormal?

 

[jimtron]

I did a simple experiment with him where he could not see the remote and he did react when I pressed the remote key.

If the remote is not near his foot, can he sense the IR without experiencing pain? If testing involves excruciating pain, that sounds kind of creepy. If this can be done without causing pain, you might try more tests where not only the remote is hidden, but the person pressing the remote is hidden as well. Because that person could inadvertently be giving clues about when the remote is being pressed. Maybe if you were behind a door or curtain, and at regular intervals (every 15 seconds, say) announced "now." Sometimes you press the button at "now," sometimes you don't. Maybe flip a coin each time to determine if you will press the button or not (to avoid patterns). Do this many times, and record both the hits and misses.

 

[Burner]

Hi Burner,

Jeff Wagg's response will shed some light onto your inquiry.

Do you think this is paranormal?

I have no idea. It sure is unusual, but paranormal? Might be some sort of agitated nerve ending 'enhanced' by shrapnel metal like I wrote in my letter, or he could be imagining it. People in constant pain tend to connect the feeling of pain with external events. However both him and three other people say this has been happening since he got wounded and his MD confirmed it.

 

[jimtron]

...his MD confirmed it.

Did the MD explain why it was happening?

 

[Burner]

If the remote is not near his foot, can he sense the IR without experiencing pain?

Don't know. I tried it from about 1.5 m distance with the remote pointing at his leg. He says he doesn't feel any kind of impulse or shock or something similar, just his pain level suddenly rises. He says sometimes a single press of the button can cause him pain. I kept it pressed for good 15-20 secs. Wasn't even aware I was doing it until he asked me if I was pressing the remote. That's how I found out in the first place.

 

[Burner]

Did the MD explain why it was happening?

I haven't talked to his MD personally. I know however that he is forbidden to take any kind of therapy that involve magnets or electricity. MRI scan or electro-therapy are out of the question. I haven't really done any investigating into this matter, will do so if this proves to be paranormal.

 

[jimtron]

I kept it pressed for good 15-20 secs. Wasn't even aware I was doing it until he asked me if I was pressing the remote.

You might want to try the blind test, if it won't cause him too much pain. What you describe above doesn't necessarily sound remarkable, IMHO (could be a coincidence, lucky guess, etc.).

 

[volatile]

Does he have the same response if sees you pressing the remote, but it doesn't have any batteries in?

 

[Burner]

You might want to try the blind test, if it won't cause him too much pain. What you describe above doesn't necessarily sound remarkable, IMHO (could be a coincidence, lucky guess, etc.).

Of course it could, but since it is causing him a lot of pain, even if he is imagining it, I will not do it until I have a reason to do so. However, both him, and his wife and son swear that this has been happening for years and they tested it without his knowledge 100 times. Neither of them knew about JREF or 1mil challenge until I told them about it, they thought it was a normal thing. Also neither of them is supersticius, nor they belive in any kind of woo.

 

[jimtron]

However, both him, and his wife and son swear that this has been happening for years and they tested it without his knowledge 100 times.

Maybe it really is happening, for natural or supernatural reasons. Did they cause him pain 100 times? If you really want to know, you should do a thorough, blind test. His wife and son may well have tested it many times, but did they do proper, controlled tests (no offense intended, but most people aren't necessarily knowledgeable about proper testing procedures for this kind of thing)?

 

[rjh01]

Some obvious questions
1. How is he on a hot day?
2. Does he wear any clothing over his foot / ankle? I am thinking of shoes. socks trousers.
3. How was this discovered? People do not normally point remotes at people's feet.
4. Anything else that causes him pain? Like sound?

I think it extremely unlikely that IR rays will cause him any pain. Remember the amount of energy in them is only very small. Point one at your hand at point blank range and press a button. You will not be able to feel anything.

One easy test is to remove the batteries from the remote without telling anyone, then use it openly on your uncle. If he can detect the fact that their are no batteries in the remote then you can start to take him seriously.

From post 9.

I kept it pressed for good 15-20 secs. Wasn't even aware I was doing it until he asked me if I was pressing the remote. That's how I found out in the first place.

From your OP

he says he feels excruciating pain when the IR beam from the remote is pointed over his foot.

These quotes contradicts each other. How much pain is involved?

 

[Burner]

Some obvious questions
1. How is he on a hot day?
2. Does he wear any clothing over his foot / ankle? I am thinking of shoes. socks trousers.
3. How was this discovered? People do not normally point remotes at people's feet.
4. Anything else that causes him pain? Like sound?

1. What da you mean by this?
2. Socks, trousers.
3. He and his family knew about it since he was wounded. He couldn't change the channels while lying on his back without having to move his foot of the way.
4. Weather changes, cold, any movements..

One easy test is to remove the batteries from the remote without telling anyone, then use it openly on your uncle. If he can detect the fact that their are no batteries in the remote then you can start to take him seriously.

I will do all these things you suggested once I know this is a paranormal claim. And I take my uncle seriously. I have great respect for him and he has never lied to me in my life.

From your OP
These quotes contradicts each other. How much pain is involved?

Not really. We do not all scream like little girls when in pain you know. He's a man who's been in constant pain for more than 10 years and has endured things your average Joe would faint even thinking about. He had no idea I was pressing the remote, and neither did I since I just had the remote pointed away from the tv and playing with it on my knee.

 

[MortFurd]

1. What da you mean by this?

Remote control emit infrared light. Infrared light is also presnt in ordinary sunlight. If the much weaker IR emission of a TV remote hurts like hell, sunlight on his bare skin ought to be so painful as to nearly kill the man.

2. Socks, trousers.
3. He and his family knew about it since he was wounded. He couldn't change the channels while lying on his back without having to move his foot of the way.
4. Weather changes, cold, any movements..




I will do all these things you suggested once I know this is a paranormal claim. And I take my uncle seriously. I have great respect for him and he has never lied to me in my life.



Not really. We do not all scream like little girls when in pain you know. He's a man who's been in constant pain for more than 10 years and has endured things your average Joe would faint even thinking about. He had no idea I was pressing the remote, and neither did I since I just had the remote pointed away from the tv and playing with it on my knee.

Given that he doesn't react to sunlight, but does react to IR from a TV remote, I would say that this is paranormal. There's no IR receiver built into the human body that could differentiate between IR and modulated IR, so what ever is going on (if it is going on) is outside of known physics and biology.

My two cents. Not worth much, as I'm not the one who has to decide.


Seriously, though. Take the batteries out of a remote and zap your uncle. If he gets pain, then it's all in his head. Try it again (with batteries) when he can't see you do it. If he doesn't notice anything, it's all in his head.

If both of those tests work out, come back. There's no point in discussing whether an effect is paranormal until you know for sure that there IS an a effect.



I'm not the

 

[TheBoyPaj]

If it's not IR, could the circuits in some remote controls emit any other radio waves?

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall hearing interference in radio reception when a remote control is used close to the receiver.

 

[MortFurd]

If it's not IR, could the circuits in some remote controls emit any other radio waves?

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall hearing interference in radio reception when a remote control is used close to the receiver.

Then the electromagnetic interference from the TV ought to be pretty murderous, too. Cell phones and two way radios would put the man in agony, as well. Not to mention cordless phones, and the miriad other sources of RF we all encounter in our daily lives. (Like the PCs we're all using to post to this forum.)

It was said that he had to move his foot out of the way to use a remote. Whatever RF (and damned little it will be, too) might be coming out of the remote will not follow the same line as the IR beam, but would probably spread all over the place. The remote isn't designed to transmit RF, so any directionality is going to be accidental - and most likely any RF will be omnidirectional.

 

[AgingYoung]

He had his ankle reconstructed but still has quite a large shrapnel in his foot which couldn't be surgically removed since it's touching some major nerves. Is it possible that the material (iron/lead or whatever it is they make mortar shells from) is somehow sensitive to IR wavelenght and sends signals through his nerve?

Some time ago someone mentioned to me what they thought was a security breach in a computer system. What was happening were files being corrupted. The files would be edited and large amounts of what seemed to be gibberish was added to them.

That problem was solved when they noticed that a modem attached to one of the computer's ports had a phone line that was hanging from it. It turned out that phone line (only connected to the modem) was acting as an antenna. The spurious signals that it picked up eventually would cause files to open for edit then everything after that would be added to the file. Eventually the spurious signal would hit on the right combination to close the edit session.

I suspect that your uncle has some accidental freakish bionic device implanted in him with this metal capacitively linked to a nerve. I think the answer to your question I emboldened is yes.

Gene