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Pizzagate

This topic sure went to hell, didn't it?

I'm the first to admit that pain + pain meds = probably shouldn't try to post on the forums.

But, I did.

So.... I can either run from it, or try to rescue it, and try to inject a bit of sense into the discussion while I'm at it. I'm a glutton for punishment sometimes, so here I am.

Let's see if we can all start by establishing one point we can agree on, for the sake of further discussion, shall we?

Do we -most of us in this thread- agree the ""symbols and logos used by pedophiles" document posted by WikiLeaks is genuine and correct?

Here's a link: https://wikileaks.org/wiki/FBI_pedophile_symbols

Note: I'm not, at this time, discussing anything else that might be found on that site or that page. Only the document which has been claimed to be a genuine document, from the FBI.


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DragonLady said:
This topic sure went to hell, didn't it?

I'm the first to admit that pain + pain meds = probably shouldn't try to post on the forums.

But, I did.

So.... I can either run from it, or try to rescue it, and try to inject a bit of sense into the discussion while I'm at it. I'm a glutton for punishment sometimes, so here I am.

Let's see if we can all start by establishing one point we can agree on, for the sake of further discussion, shall we?

Do we -most of us in this thread- agree the ""symbols and logos used by pedophiles" document posted by WikiLeaks is genuine and correct?

Here's a link: https://wikileaks.org/wiki/FBI_pedophile_symbols

Note: I'm not, at this time, discussing anything else that might be found on that site or that page. Only the document which has been claimed to be a genuine document, from the FBI.


Etededed to correct the code
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Even that is in doubt. Froma related issue with a heart shaped symbol:

http://www.snopes.com/code-for-pedophiles-on-toys/

According to Bassone, the heart symbol in question indeed bore some resemblance to imagery disseminated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Cyber Division Innocent Images National Initiative to law enforcement agencies on 31 January 2007. (We were unable to locate the document anywhere other than Wikileaks, and Bassone told us that slides from the FBI's release later appeared on an episode of Law and Order: Special Victims Unit.) The communication tipped law enforcement in 2007 to the existence of the symbols and common applications among pedophiles:
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Note that the link is the same wiki leak page. ETA: and who in his right mind would be using a symbol extremly likely to be already known by law enforcement ?
 
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Why would pedophiles go around wearing something that identifies them?
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I *assume* for the purposes of networking with others who share the same...affliction.

No different than military uniforms, band t-shirts, bumper stickers or fancy red hats.
 
DragonLady said:
I *assume* for the purposes of networking with others who share the same...affliction.

No different than military uniforms, band t-shirts, bumper stickers or fancy red hats.
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Yes but that makes you a target for law enforcement as soon as the symbol is identified.
That makes it far different to those you cited.

ETA: there is a reason pedophile go for the dark web, because advertising what you are with symbol on your arm/finger/necklace is tantamount to attract the attention of people *warned* against pedophile, i.e. law enforcement, possibly child care department, school etc....

Gut feeling is that the probability for you to encounter somebody *warned* agaisnt the symbol is far higher than the probability of encountering another pedo at random.

But on the dark web you can prefilter.

That's why I find the statement dubious.
 
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DragonLady said:
I *assume* for the purposes of networking with others who share the same...affliction.

No different than military uniforms, band t-shirts, bumper stickers or fancy red hats.
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Yeah, except that what you wear is pretty useless when networking online, which is the safest place for them to interact.


That reminds me of the vampire symbols in the Blade movies that they plastered all over the place, just making it easier for Blade to slaughter them.
 
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Aepervius said:
Even that is in doubt. Froma related issue with a heart shaped symbol:

http://www.snopes.com/code-for-pedophiles-on-toys/



Note that the link is the same wiki leak page. ETA: and who in his right mind would be using a symbol extremly likely to be already known by law enforcement ?
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Right. Here's where we start running into muddy water.

A symbol is just an image, like any other. Every viewer of any image is going to bring their own perception to it.

Audi used something that looked like the "goatse" symbol in one of their ad campaigns. Either the person who used it had no clue what it meant, was being a smart ass, or actually invented something without recognizing the similarity.

Whatever the case, the idea that a particular word, symbol or other device is entirely unique to one group, and has only one meaning, and will never be hijacked. misconstrued or used by sheer coincidence by someone else is silly.

I recall seeing the "heart within a heart" symbol painted on the wall of my gynecologist's office decades ago when I was pregnant. I thought nothing of it then, and I don't now.

However, I think part of being a skeptic is not just waving away things as being coincidental without taking a long, hard look at the facts -or lack thereof- around an issue, all kinds of things really can hide in plain sight.

The biggest problem with conspiracy theories is: sometimes they're true. So it's not fair, IMO, for anyone to just dismiss something out-of-hand because it is unlikely.

When we do, respected priests and well liked teachers and decorated officers shock the community by being caught doing things no one thought they would ever do.
 
Yeah, except that what you wear is pretty useless when networking online, which is the safest place for them to interact
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Agreed. But very few people of any persuasion literally live on the internet.

Most, no matter who they are or what they like to do, want to seek out the company of others who are like minded.
 
DragonLady said:
Agreed. But very few people of any persuasion literally live on the internet.

Most, no matter who they are or what they like to do, want to seek out the company of others who are like minded.
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Considering their very small numbers, I'm not sure visual cues like this have any use. Again, they mostly have to meet on the 'net.

And can I ask you to include my name in the posts you reply to? It's a bit hard to know who you're replying to if you just post the text without the link to the original post.
 
Yes but that makes you a target for law enforcement as soon as the symbol is identified.
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Only if said law enforcement recognizes it, and doesn't shrug it off as mere coincidence.

Further: if wearing a ring with little pyramids on it is a sign of something big, but there tens of thousands of them being worn by people who have no clue, that symbol is only a small tell to anyone looking.

For instance, if I'm looking for a member of the Red Hat Society, I might first look for the most obvious signs: red hats, and purple shirts. If there either a) none of those or b) too many of those, I'd know I have to look for other signs. If I were a member of the group, I would probably have a good idea what to look for, so I'd keep narrowing down the list of possibilities 'til I found someone that looked like a sure bet.
 
DragonLady said:
However, I think part of being a skeptic is not just waving away things as being coincidental without taking a long, hard look at the facts -or lack thereof- around an issue, all kinds of things really can hide in plain sight.

The biggest problem with conspiracy theories is: sometimes they're true. So it's not fair, IMO, for anyone to just dismiss something out-of-hand because it is unlikely.
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How about dismissing it because after months and months, all the conspiracy theorists have been able to come up with is that there are hashtags referring to food on a pizzeria's Instagram and that there might be either antlers or a tree in a painting?
Any kind of evidence, or testimony from either a victim or accomplice would be a reason to keep looking. Pareidolia and witch hunts deserve to be dismissed

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DragonLady said:
Further: if wearing a ring with little pyramids on it is a sign of something big, but there tens of thousands of them being worn by people who have no clue, that symbol is only a small tell to anyone looking.
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If the identifying symbol of your secret organisation is something used by numerous people who do not belong to your group, it's a very poor identifier.
 
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Porpoise of Life said:
How about dismissing it because after months and months, all the conspiracy theorists have been able to come up with is that there are hashtags referring to food on a pizzeria's Instagram and that there might be either antlers or a tree in a painting?
Any kind of evidence, or testimony from either a victim or accomplice would be a reason to keep looking. Pareidolia and witch hunts deserve to be dismissed
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Say, Porpoise, I notice that your avatar is vaguely similar to those FBI symbols that DragonLady linked to a short while back. I'm not making a claim or anything, and I'm certainly not perpetuating baseless accusations that you are part of the pizza ring or anything, but it is.... weird, innit?
 
Porpoise of Life said:
How about dismissing it because after months and months, all the conspiracy theorists have been able to come up with is that there are hashtags referring to food on a pizzeria's Instagram and that there might be either antlers or a tree in a painting?
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The weird art is meaningless to me. I'll join the disgruntled group that gets a bit annoyed to see those works bring acclaim, when other artists spend tens of thousands of hours studying and practicing to produce far more interesting and thought-provoking works.


Any kind of evidence, or testimony from either a victim or accomplice would be a reason to keep looking.
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Is anyone looking for evidence or testimonies?

Pareidolia and witch hunts deserve to be dismissed
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Agreed.

:
If the identifying symbol of your secret organisation is something used by numerous people who do not belong to your group, it's a very poor identifier.
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I'm not sure I quite agree with that. As I said above, it might only be a tiny tell, but it might be enough to convince me to take further steps toward positive identification.

And I suppose I hope that is what law enforcement does in these cases.
 
Well, thanks to Wikileaks now they know the FBI is on to them so they can change the symbols.

Huh. Assange helped child molesters. Weird, innit?
 
Argumemnon said:
Say, Porpoise, I notice that your avatar is vaguely similar to those FBI symbols that DragonLady linked to a short while back. I'm not making a claim or anything, and I'm certainly not perpetuating baseless accusations that you are part of the pizza ring or anything, but it is.... weird, innit?
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No way, I love kids! Wait, that came out wrong.

DragonLady said:
Is anyone looking for evidence or testimonies?
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I honestly have no idea. But I wouldn't blame law enforcement for not looking too deeply if all they have are accusations by political opponents, based on word games (James Alefantis sounds like "j'aime les enfants") and far-fetched connections (the brother of a guy who held fundraisers there has a large modern art collection that includes nudes)
 
Aepervius said:
ETA: there is a reason pedophile go for the dark web, because advertising what you are with symbol on your arm/finger/necklace is tantamount to attract the attention of people *warned* against pedophile, i.e. law enforcement, possibly child care department, school etc....
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In theory, yes.

In practice, no. In the US, advocating for pedophilia is protected by the first amendment; so pro-pedophile rhetoric websites exist - on the regular, non-dark web - and they apparently freely and openly use the triangle and the heart symbols that appear on the alleged FBI document. So regardless of whether the document is a genuine FBI document, or whether they appeared on a TV show episode or when, it does appear these symbols are used by pedophiles in the manner the document contends.
 
Slowvehicle said:
What kind of "cheese" is the "crust" "stuffed" with?
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Like you don't know, you cheeky monkey.

DragonLady said:
This topic sure went to hell, didn't it?
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I'm fairly certain it started in hell and has just walled there not having enough substance to move.

DragonLady said:
No different than military uniforms, band t-shirts, bumper stickers or fancy red hats.
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Which of those get you arrested?

DragonLady said:
Right. Here's where we start running into muddy water.
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It never got out of the muddy water. There was nothing but muddy water. There is better evidence that participants in this thread are child molesters than anything the OP or you have brought to the table.

Porpoise of Life said:
How about dismissing it because after months and months, all the conspiracy theorists have been able to come up with is that there are hashtags referring to food on a pizzeria's Instagram and that there might be either antlers or a tree in a painting?
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Nah, the lack of evidence is proof of the coverup!
 
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