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Physics explanation sought

TruthSeeker1234

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Please look at this Zafar picture of the WTC1 event. The picture is taken looking east. Notice how much of the material is falling down and to the left, that is to the north. The wind was blowing towards the southeast that day, at about 5 mph. I can't think of any reason why there would be low pressure to the north of the tower. And it would take some extremely low pressure to suck so much mass so far, against the wind. Why would this material go that way?
 
So you believe that these columns fell here because they followed an area of low air pressure. Interesting. Things a little slow over at "Hunt the Rubble?"


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Just sing the Scarecrow part in the Wiz O' Oz! I always do ...when I see you post! It makes more sense, YOU... are the S-crow!
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
No Gravy, not at all. I don't know why the material would go northward. I think it is very odd, and I'd like an explanation. It couldn't be the wind, and it couldn't be low air pressure.
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The ghost of Horace Greeley leered down from the heavens and shouted:

"Go West, young material, Go West!"

But the young material happened to be anti-authority and decided to go North instead.
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
No Gravy, not at all. I don't know why the material would go northward. I think it is very odd, and I'd like an explanation. It couldn't be the wind, and it couldn't be low air pressure.
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Then you agree that the photo I posted shows an enormous quantity of steel columns extending across West Street?
 
Gravy's pic shows something interesting. Near the middle are large sections of the perimeter beams still intact, some of them at least six stories in height. If this was a CD with charges on every beam of every floor, how do the troofers explain the presence of these large sections.

Steve S.
 
Gravy said:
Then you agree that the photo I posted shows an enormous quantity of steel columns extending across West Street?
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The "Westside Highway Laydown" would be an interesting topic for a thread, I'll start it. The subject of this thread is:

What is the physical explanation for why the material in the Zafar photo would be drifting north as it fell?
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
The "Westside Highway Laydown" would be an interesting topic for a thread, I'll start it. The subject of this thread is:

What is the physical explanation for why the material in the Zafar photo would be drifting north as it fell?
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It's important, if we're going to continue this discussion, that I know we're on the same page here. The photo I posted shows a huge quantity of actual steel columns, correct?
 
Gravy said:
It's important, if we're going to continue this discussion, that I know we're on the same page here. The photo I posted shows a huge quantity of actual steel columns, correct?
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No, Gravy, it's not a huge quantity at all. I count about 20 stories worth of perimeter sections from the west face of WTC1 in that pic, total. Other photos indicate clearly that the rubble in the Westside highway was not deep at all.

For the sake of your point, assume anything you want. What's your point, and why is the material in the OP pic drifting north?
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
No Gravy, not at all. I don't know why the material would go northward. I think it is very odd, and I'd like an explanation. It couldn't be the wind, and it couldn't be low air pressure.
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TS when you say material do you mean thousands of tons of steel from the external columns?

Are you wondering why thousands of tons of steel from a building that is collapsing in an uncontrolled fashion would fall to the ground in a chaotic manner?
 
stateofgrace said:
TS when you say material do you mean thousands of tons of steel from the external columns?

Are you wondering why thousands of tons of steel from a building that is collapsing in an uncontrolled fashion would fall to the ground in a chaotic manner?
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I am wondering why the material in the OP pic, which is dense concrete dust, and whatever else, is drifting northward as it falls. What force is present to cause this?
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
Why would this material go that way?
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Because a 5 mph wind will not do much against any piece of debris much larger than a grain of sand, let alone hunks of steel weighing hundreds or thousands of pounds.

One would think this would be obvious.. :confused:
 
WildCat said:
Because a 5 mph wind will not do much against any piece of debris much larger than a grain of sand, let alone hunks of steel weighing hundreds or thousands of pounds.

One would think this would be obvious.. :confused:
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If it's obvious, then answer the question. What force is present to cause the material to drift north?
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
No, Gravy, it's not a huge quantity at all. I count about 20 stories worth of perimeter sections from the west face of WTC1 in that pic, total. Other photos indicate clearly that the rubble in the Westside highway was not deep at all.

For the sake of your point, assume anything you want. What's your point, and why is the material in the OP pic drifting north?
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Okay, I'm glad that you've admitted that it's real steel, and not some "vaporized" or "dustified" byproduct.

You're making progress, TS!

Now, you say the material in the Zafar photo is "drifting" to the north. However, videos show quite clearly that most of this material is plummeting to the ground, impeded only by the air. Please watch some videos and tell me if you agree.

Videos and still photos show these large sections of steel trailing lighter debris and dust as they fall. Do you agree that this is what we're seeing in the Zafar photo, not only on the northwest side, but all around the building? If you're unsure about that, watch videos and look at photos of both towers, such as the images of the large south tower sections falling past and into WTC 3. Note the falling perimeter sections trailing lighter dust and debris.

Okay?

Now, as for why the steel wound up where it did, try this experiment. Place an empty aluminum drink can on the floor. While wearing shoes, step on the top of the can, hard enough to crush it. Do this with six cans, aligning the labels in the same orientation each time before stepping on them.

Take notes on how the can collapses differed from each other, and develop a hypothesis about those differences.

Report back.
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
I am wondering why the material in the OP pic, which is dense concrete dust, and whatever else, is drifting northward as it falls. What force is present to cause this?
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It's not drifting, it's falling. The smoke is drifting, and clearly to the south.
 
Gravy said:
Okay, I'm glad that you've admitted that it's real steel, and not some "vaporized" or "dustified" byproduct.

You're making progress, TS!

Now, you say the material in the Zafar photo is "drifting" to the north. However, videos show quite clearly that most of this material is plummeting to the ground, impeded only by the air. Please watch some videos and tell me if you agree.

Videos and still photos show these large sections of steel trailing lighter debris and dust as they fall. Do you agree that this is what we're seeing in the Zafar photo, not only on the northwest side, but all around the building? If you're unsure about that, watch videos and look at photos of both towers, such as the images of the large south tower sections falling past and into WTC 3. Note the falling perimeter sections trailing lighter dust and debris.

Okay?

Now, as for why the steel wound up where it did, try this experiment. Place an empty aluminum drink can on the floor. While wearing shoes, step on the top of the can, hard enough to crush it. Do this with six cans, aligning the labels in the same orientation each time before stepping on them.

Take notes on how the can collapses differed from each other, and develop a hypothesis about those differences.

Report back.
Click to expand...

That would be an interesting thread. The subject of this thread is the following:

What force is present to cause the material in the OP pic to drift to the north? If there is a video shot from a similar vantage point, I will look at it. Siegel's footage is from Hoboken, maybe that's similar enough. Any others?
 
TruthSeeker1234 said:
If it's obvious, then answer the question. What force is present to cause the material to drift north?
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It was clearly explained in the post you just quoted. I need not go any further, because to anyone w/ a functioning cerebral cortex it's obvious. To those who have only a working brain stem, it's a mystery.

eta: Any further explanation is wasted on the latter.
 
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TruthSeeker1234 said:
I am wondering why the material in the OP pic, which is dense concrete dust, and whatever else, is drifting northward as it falls. What force is present to cause this?
Click to expand...

So are you going to offer an explanation yourself? What do you think TS? Space beams? Holograms? Maybe somebody set up a giant fan somewhere, Go on TS stop asking and try answering.

What do you think the answer to your question is?

If as you say it is dense concrete dust then it is falling, not drifting, is it not ?
 
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