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Penn & Teller: "Fool Us" and My Bragging Rights

Garrette

Penultimate Amazing
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Joined
Aug 7, 2001
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I get fooled occasionally by the performers on this show, including every time that P&T were fooled.

This is the first time that they were fooled and I was not. It means nothing, of course, except I get to obnoxiously say "Nyah nyah!" repeatedly.

Rick Lax and the Black and Red Memory Tick (my name, not his).
 
It fooled me, but honestly, I lost interest in the effect because the banter was so entertaining.
 
marplots said:
It fooled me, but honestly, I lost interest in the effect because the banter was so entertaining.
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Agreed, but that was part of the fun. As a strict memory demonstration it's fairly boring, but in the way Lax presented it it was quite entertaining. Frankly, the rapid fire recitation of the poem was more impressive than the mechanics of the effect.
 
Garrette said:
Agreed, but that was part of the fun. As a strict memory demonstration it's fairly boring, but in the way Lax presented it it was quite entertaining. Frankly, the rapid fire recitation of the poem was more impressive than the mechanics of the effect.
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I think it's for sale at Penguin for instant download if anyone is interested: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/3905
$10
 
Why learn complicated mnemonic effects when you could simply use a marked deck? Teller was checking for that so I know he didn't use that method (unless he had a hell of a sophisticated marking method).
 
Senex said:
Why learn complicated mnemonic effects when you could simply use a marked deck? Teller was checking for that so I know he didn't use that method (unless he had a hell of a sophisticated marking method).
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That's the point. It isn't really a memory effect; it just appears to be.

NB: The first bit with the 12 cards is a memory effect, but with a very simplified way of doing it. The bit with all the rest has nothing at all to do with memory.
 
There has been at least one case when Penn&Teller declared "you fooled us!" in spite they knew how the trick was done. It happened to be they knew it through a book the very same performer wrote, so they couldn't have known without that information, so "you fooled us!". This sounds pretty much the same, unless what is on offer is very old or an infringement of intellectual righs.
 
I think, perhaps I saw the one you're speaking of. David Roth, yes? And I agree, but I think it was an exception out of deference for a legend. They also didn't mention the rather shaky hands and slight slips due to age.
 
Kostya Kimlat was the "you fooled us" that annoyed the most. Unless Teller's view was completely obscured through the end, I don't see how he missed the cull.

The second most annoying "you fooled us" was the guy who ripped the telephone book in half. I don't remember his name, but the move was so obvious even Penn must have been sleeping.
 
The Kimlat routine was very amusing if only for Penn getting visibly angry as he was getting fooled. From very early on he knew how the trick had to end, but had no clue how it would get there.
 
The only "you fooled us!" that annoyed me was the couple who used a boy on a skate. Their move was pretty obvious even for me that am a first-class muggle, but they took advantage of being a couple and they feign a second less obvious move that proved to be a decoy. Even I can perform that trick, and thing are constantly slipping from my hands (I break a piece of dishware every two months)
 
aleCcowaN said:
The only "you fooled us!" that annoyed me was the couple who used a boy on a skate. Their move was pretty obvious even for me that am a first-class muggle, but they took advantage of being a couple and they feign a second less obvious move that proved to be a decoy. Even I can perform that trick, and thing are constantly slipping from my hands (I break a piece of dishware every two months)
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That one annoyed me, too, and I don't know why P&T let them get away with it. I didn't find the routine entertaining (but I recognize that that is subjective), but there were only one or two methods possible. The fact P&T guessed the wrong one shouldn't mean they were fooled.
 
aleCcowaN said:
The only "you fooled us!" that annoyed me was the couple who used a boy on a skate. Their move was pretty obvious even for me that am a first-class muggle, but they took advantage of being a couple and they feign a second less obvious move that proved to be a decoy. Even I can perform that trick, and thing are constantly slipping from my hands (I break a piece of dishware every two months)
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I forgotten about that one. It, too, annoyed, but for different reasons than the other two I mentioned. I don't like it when the the trick is acted out to mislead Penn and Teller as to method rather than to astonish them with the impossible. That's just gaming the system.
 
You are both right. The coarse routine of getting Ross to use a showgirl coif and finally placing the coif on a coach big enough to hide Laurel Hardy, Zero Mostel and Richard Burton at the same time; that was gross, and having that naive skate champion in the dark, used in such way, the sum of it went against everything magic stands for. That couple are not first class illusionist but first class swindlers.
 
I was a little annoyed with the Kimlat bit as well. If only because he's known for one thing only, and that's what fools them?

There is a slight real life chance that they simply were not aware that some people are that good at culling half a deck, not being move monkeys themselves, but it is stretching my credulity.

Not realizing Kimlat used a cull is like not guessing that Annemann uses a billet switch or that Aaronson might have memorized a deck...
 
Maurice Ledifficile said:
I was a little annoyed with the Kimlat bit as well. If only because he's known for one thing only, and that's what fools them?

There is a slight real life chance that they simply were not aware that some people are that good at culling half a deck, not being move monkeys themselves, but it is stretching my credulity.

Not realizing Kimlat used a cull is like not guessing that Annemann uses a billet switch or that Aaronson might have memorized a deck...
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That's funny because it is so true.
 
Garrette said:
I get fooled occasionally by the performers on this show, including every time that P&T were fooled.

This is the first time that they were fooled and I was not. It means nothing, of course, except I get to obnoxiously say "Nyah nyah!" repeatedly.

Rick Lax and the Black and Red Memory Tick (my name, not his).
Click to expand...

Does anyone else get the sense that season 2 is more about promoting magic. I get the show here back-to-back with Wizard Wars. Some of the same faces have been on both shows, but that's not solely why I feel it's more a promotional exercise. For certain insider "legends" they go by the letter of the rules. They're fooled by stuff that they would've allowed themselves the win in the first season, e.g. they know (because they know the persona or the signature moves of the persona) HOW it was done, but couldn't catch the actual moves. In season 1, those types were shuffled off with Jonathan's patented "So, you didn't fool them but wasn't that a marvelous performance, folks."

I don't remember names, but in one of the early episodes this season they had the son of a legendary couple. The tricks were standard fare, well executed, but nothing even amateur fans like myself haven't seen done (and explained) before. The big reveal at the end was that the parents were behind a curtain or in a box. And they were fooled? I sincerely doubt it. It was a "tribute". Ditto the dude what invented half the current "Coins" routines. He's great. But "fooled"? No. They were unable to spot some of the moves, but they surely didn't leave the theater scratching their heads.

I'm not saying that some of it is pre-ordained, but Kimlat has a mini-corporate empire going. Would he have agreed to show up on the chance of not fooling them? Or was the wrinkle on the known trick (Teller does a variation) going to puzzle them as to just how it was precisely executed, and they agreed that if they couldn't catch the move, they'd credit him. I don't believe Penn's comment that when Teller saw Kimlat's name when they arrived, he said, "We're screwed!" Sounds like fluff.

Wizard Wars, by the way, is fun. The prize is so low that the exposure is more important, but the rough (very rough) edges on the tricks is great. With no time to practice or figure out the camera angles, it's pretty raw sometimes.

Oh, and I'm giving a free piece of cake (we'll take it from Ron Tomkins) for the explanation to "the leaf stab gone bad and signed leaf in bottle of maple syrup" solution.
 
Good observations! In this season also someone who never performs in public but designs new tricks for magicians ... I start to see the pattern.

In the first season, the bloke with the envelops (yours, mine, something, nothing, sex) elicited a "we're not supposed to be fooled by that" from Penn.
 
Mind you, I'm not criticizing that they're promoting magicians and boosting some careers. We get a real limited choice of conjurers in the mainstream media.
 
Foolmewunz said:
Does anyone else get the sense that season 2 is more about promoting magic. I get the show here back-to-back with Wizard Wars. Some of the same faces have been on both shows, but that's not solely why I feel it's more a promotional exercise. For certain insider "legends" they go by the letter of the rules. They're fooled by stuff that they would've allowed themselves the win in the first season, e.g. they know (because they know the persona or the signature moves of the persona) HOW it was done, but couldn't catch the actual moves. In season 1, those types were shuffled off with Jonathan's patented "So, you didn't fool them but wasn't that a marvelous performance, folks."

I don't remember names, but in one of the early episodes this season they had the son of a legendary couple. The tricks were standard fare, well executed, but nothing even amateur fans like myself haven't seen done (and explained) before. The big reveal at the end was that the parents were behind a curtain or in a box. And they were fooled? I sincerely doubt it. It was a "tribute". Ditto the dude what invented half the current "Coins" routines. He's great. But "fooled"? No. They were unable to spot some of the moves, but they surely didn't leave the theater scratching their heads.

I'm not saying that some of it is pre-ordained, but Kimlat has a mini-corporate empire going. Would he have agreed to show up on the chance of not fooling them? Or was the wrinkle on the known trick (Teller does a variation) going to puzzle them as to just how it was precisely executed, and they agreed that if they couldn't catch the move, they'd credit him. I don't believe Penn's comment that when Teller saw Kimlat's name when they arrived, he said, "We're screwed!" Sounds like fluff.

Wizard Wars, by the way, is fun. The prize is so low that the exposure is more important, but the rough (very rough) edges on the tricks is great. With no time to practice or figure out the camera angles, it's pretty raw sometimes.

Oh, and I'm giving a free piece of cake (we'll take it from Ron Tomkins) for the explanation to "the leaf stab gone bad and signed leaf in bottle of maple syrup" solution.
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I don't recognize this particular trick (I grep the forum for mentions of "maple syrup" ;) ) but Laura London will sell you the Card in Bottle trick for $14.99. See: http://www.ellusionist.com/laura-london-card-in-bottle.html

But watch her video first! :cool:
 
Foolmewunz said:
Mind you, I'm not criticizing that they're promoting magicians and boosting some careers. We get a real limited choice of conjurers in the mainstream media.
Click to expand...

The quality of the tricks does seem to vary quite a bit and the issue of "being fooled" appears somewhat arbitrary -- if I can figure how its done, it surely can't have fooled P & T. However, as you say, there is not enough magic in the World and some illusions are really mind blowing (note, again, this me and my mind been blown).

I'm off to see Greg Frewin in Toronto (Oakville actually) in a couple of weeks.
http://www.imaginetour.ca/

I'll let you know afterwards whether he is the "Best Magician in the World" per the World Magic Awards.
 
Some of P&T coded explanations of methods baffles me more than the tricks! This weeks Fred Flintstone "yabba DABBA do" WTF!
Although I did get the turtle reference for the coin trick,but the performer doing it in spectators hands took balls as Penn rightly said.
 
Azrael 5 said:
Some of P&T coded explanations of methods baffles me more than the tricks! This weeks Fred Flintstone "yabba DABBA do" WTF!
Although I did get the turtle reference for the coin trick,but the performer doing it in spectators hands took balls as Penn rightly said.
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In a recent show Penn said that they provide enough explanatory info so that teenagers interested in magic can look the terms up on the Internet. :cool:
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
I don't recognize this particular trick (I grep the forum for mentions of "maple syrup" ;) ) but Laura London will sell you the Card in Bottle trick for $14.99. See: http://www.ellusionist.com/laura-london-card-in-bottle.html

But watch her video first! :cool:
Click to expand...

Not the same trick. The reference to the "stab" was that there are a number of find-the-card tricks that end with the deck of cards being thrown up in the air and the magician stabbing or grabbing one, miraculously. It's pretty apparent how it's done, even to amateurs like me.

In this trick, the magicians gave a souvenir bottle of maple syrup to the wizards at far stage left and neither of the magicians approached it. Instead of a cards, they used a bunch of dry leaves (one of the mandatory props) and had Penn and Teller sign one of the leaves. They then suckered the conjurers on the panel and the audience into thinking the denouement was going to be "the stab", which is really just palming and slight of hand, of course. But the signed leaf turned up in the bottle of maple syrup. The panel of wizards and the judges were sufficiently amazed. As was I.

Knowing the mechanics of many tricks, and assuming the cameras were honest and neither of them ever approached that side of the stage, I cannot grok how it was done.
 
Foolmewunz said:
Not the same trick. The reference to the "stab" was that there are a number of find-the-card tricks that end with the deck of cards being thrown up in the air and the magician stabbing or grabbing one, miraculously. It's pretty apparent how it's done, even to amateurs like me.

In this trick, the magicians gave a souvenir bottle of maple syrup to the wizards at far stage left and neither of the magicians approached it. Instead of a cards, they used a bunch of dry leaves (one of the mandatory props) and had Penn and Teller sign one of the leaves. They then suckered the conjurers on the panel and the audience into thinking the denouement was going to be "the stab", which is really just palming and slight of hand, of course. But the signed leaf turned up in the bottle of maple syrup. The panel of wizards and the judges were sufficiently amazed. As was I.

Knowing the mechanics of many tricks, and assuming the cameras were honest and neither of them ever approached that side of the stage, I cannot grok how it was done.
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I don't think I have seen this show yet. I PVR them and watch them when I get around to it. From your description, I does seem pretty good. I'll let you know after I have seen it whether I have any insight as to how it is done. ;)

I think the best one I have seen so far is the one where a card deck is shuffled, cut, mixed, etc and shuffled with half the cards face up and the other half face down and then finally dealt all face down (or was it up?). Penn saw where it was going from the start but said it fooled both him and Teller. P & T were allowed to keep the deck.
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
I don't think I have seen this show yet. I PVR them and watch them when I get around to it. From your description, I does seem pretty good. I'll let you know after I have seen it whether I have any insight as to how it is done. ;)

I think the best one I have seen so far is the one where a card deck is shuffled, cut, mixed, etc and shuffled with half the cards face up and the other half face down and then finally dealt all face down (or was it up?). Penn saw where it was going from the start but said it fooled both him and Teller. P & T were allowed to keep the deck.
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The episode with the maple syrup was from Wizard Wars, not the US version of Fool Us. (Note for Foolmewunz: Sometimes the performers use off-stage assistants.)

The card trick you liked was performed by Kostya Kimlat. Very well done and very entertaining....but Teller should have nailed him.
 
jsfisher said:
The episode with the maple syrup was from Wizard Wars, not the US version of Fool Us. (Note for Foolmewunz: Sometimes the performers use off-stage assistants.)

The card trick you liked was performed by Kostya Kimlat. Very well done and very entertaining....but Teller should have nailed him.
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I thought I made it clear (although maybe not) that it was a Wizard Wars episode. And it occurred to me that the only way to do it is with a confederate, but I reckoned that should be against the unspoken rules. I was also wondering if P&T would have been so gobsmacked if assistance was allowed. They have their famous phone-in-fish routine which obviously uses a confederate or three, so that should be the automatic assumption. (Mind, they make no mention of allowing or disallowing unseen assistance.)
 
Foolmewunz said:
I thought I made it clear (although maybe not) that it was a Wizard Wars episode. And it occurred to me that the only way to do it is with a confederate, but I reckoned that should be against the unspoken rules. I was also wondering if P&T would have been so gobsmacked if assistance was allowed. They have their famous phone-in-fish routine which obviously uses a confederate or three, so that should be the automatic assumption. (Mind, they make no mention of allowing or disallowing unseen assistance.)
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My bad. :o It's not like I pay a huge degree of attention to what goes on here. :bunpan
 
Azrael 5 said:
Some of P&T coded explanations of methods baffles me more than the tricks! This weeks Fred Flintstone "yabba DABBA do" WTF!
Although I did get the turtle reference for the coin trick,but the performer doing it in spectators hands took balls as Penn rightly said.
Click to expand...
I'm just a spectator of magic, but I think when Fred said, "yabba dabba doo", Fred knew what was to happen.
 
Garrette said:
I get fooled occasionally by the performers on this show, including every time that P&T were fooled.

This is the first time that they were fooled and I was not. It means nothing, of course, except I get to obnoxiously say "Nyah nyah!" repeatedly.

Rick Lax and the Black and Red Memory Tick (my name, not his).
Click to expand...

I got to see this yesterday. (The show airs here on Tuesdays, but I missed the opening segments. They repeat the show a few time during the following week.) I suspect from the hearty bro-hugs that Lax has created a trick or two for them. And I do think they cut some slack for home team favorites, as I mentioned earlier.

It's a slick routine. He threw in a "Tribute to P&T" by reciting Casey at the Bat, and they looked like they were having too much fun as part of the act to actually be sitting there figuring out the obvious solutions. Obvious, to them, not me. My amateur guess is that it's not a memory routine but a deck-stacking routine. All the patter around the choices he's making as to which cards to have in the last stack is a great distraction but he spent an awful lot of time and numerous moves to winnow it down to those last 18/20 cards. The look he had at those cards wasn't enough for even a great mnemonist to get the order... unless he was just looking to confirm that he'd got his stack right.
????

I'm guessing. But "You Fooled Us!!"? I doubt it. There are two obvious solutions. If he's got brilliant skills at mnemonics/memorization he could've memorized them, I guess. They'd know whether that was possible. Or he could've ordered the cards in a sequence that he's done four hundred times before. But they didn't even really take a stab at either solution.
 
The winnowing wasn't necessary. He could have done it with a full deck or even more. A stack is sort of the answer but likely not in the manner you are thinking.
 
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