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Pardons

gypsyjackson said:
Thanks. Trying to set precedent perhaps.
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Perhaps to some degree. I expect more just that he is sympathetic because the things Kilpatrick was found guilty of are exactly what he would have done in the same situation. To him, that looks perfectly fine. His only "real" crime was getting caught.
 
Matthew Best said:
I have just scrolled through the list looking for names I recognised (and didn’t see many) but I did see a large number of non-violent drug offenders with ridiculously long sentences. So it’s not as bad as I feared - Bannon notwithstanding of course.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...ncy-012021/?utm_source=link&utm_medium=header
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And what did these crackheads ever do for Trump? You'll never see the MSM point out that Bannon actually EARNED his pardon unlike a lot of the Blacks because dat be racist.
 
Firestone said:
Trump pardoning Bannon for the crime of defrauding MAGA-idiots is just perfect.
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And the likely reason for pardoning Bannon is so that he can lead a new Patriot Party that Trump is considering starting up (despite Bannon calling him an "11-year-old child") where Bannon will be asking those same defrauded MAGA-idiots to donate money. And they will. And they will.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
It's hard to imagine a greater slap-in-the-face: it's an admission that for Trump, Build-the-Wall was always a grift.
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The only people who will join the dots, and who actually care, are people who would never have voted for President Trump in any case.

Supporters of President Trump, if they have an opinion, will think that the charges against Steve Bannon were brought as part of a politically-motivated witch hunt and so the pardon is completely justified.
 
In interesting legal matters, considering the very late hour, Biden could maybe theoretically revoke Bannon's pardon. It won't happen, but it possibly could.

Grant revoked two pardons granted by Andrew Johnson. The courts upheld the revocations because the prison warden had not delivered the pardon. Another revocation was upheld because the prisoner had physically received the pardon.

If Biden were to revoke Bannon's pardon, that may be upheld if, at that time, it has not been received by the clerks of the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York, or possibly even if the pardon has not been delivered, by some manner, to Bannon himself.

Probably won't happen. But an interesting idea.
 
Wonder what Bannon's three indicted partners in crime, who were not pardoned, must be thinking this morning.
 
Firestone said:
Wonder what Bannon's three indicted partners in crime, who were not pardoned, must be thinking this morning.
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They are thinking about what undisclosed Bannon crimes they are aware of that were not pardoned that they could give for a plea deal. I would guess.
 
List of pardons includes Bannon. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ve-bannon-amid-last-acts-of-presidency-report

Full list - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/20/trump-pardons-and-commutations-the-full-list

Trump did not attempt to give himself a pre-emptive pardon, and has not pardoned members of his family or Rudy Giuliani, his former personal lawyer with whom he has fallen out. Julian Assange was another figure subject to speculation who was not on the list. Prosecutors and scholars have, however, said a grey area in the constitution means a president may be able to issue “secret” pardons, without notifying Congress or the public.
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List of pardons includes Bannon. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ve-bannon-amid-last-acts-of-presidency-report

Full list - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/20/trump-pardons-and-commutations-the-full-list

Trump did not attempt to give himself a pre-emptive pardon, and has not pardoned members of his family or Rudy Giuliani, his former personal lawyer with whom he has fallen out. Julian Assange was another figure subject to speculation who was not on the list. Prosecutors and scholars have, however, said a grey area in the constitution means a president may be able to issue “secret” pardons, without notifying Congress or the public.
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Question: Is there anything that requires a pardon to be announced and recorded? What prevents Trump from signing a pardon for himself, maybe with witnesses, and sitting on it? If he is never indicted, he never produces it; if he is, he unveils it and says "Not so fast."
 
Firestone said:
Amen to that.

From a CNN legal analyst: "And now the feds at SDNY need to walk the Bannon case file across the street to the Manhattan DA. Theft is theft, it's a state crime too."

Is that correct?

https://twitter.com/eliehonig/status/1351745413120974849
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The question would be where was Bannon actually raising money? I would think if he was operating in New York, it could easily become a New York city or state case.
 
Bob001 said:
Question: Is there anything that requires a pardon to be announced and recorded? What prevents Trump from signing a pardon for himself, maybe with witnesses, and sitting on it? If he is never indicted, he never produces it; if he is, he unveils it and says "Not so fast."
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No. See my post above about court rulings on whether a pardon can be revoked before it is delivered. That is all we have.

The rest would be up to the courts. A secret pardon would almost certainly be considered not valid. A self pardon would almost certainly be considered not valid whether secret or not.
 
Firestone said:
Amen to that.

From a CNN legal analyst: "And now the feds at SDNY need to walk the Bannon case file across the street to the Manhattan DA. Theft is theft, it's a state crime too."

Is that correct?

https://twitter.com/eliehonig/status/1351745413120974849
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Maybe. It makes it more complicated. The charges where related to mail fraud, which is federal, and money laundering, which appears to be at least mostly federal.

I have not looked into the details, but these are really Federal charges. There is a decent chance that there are underlying State laws violated as well, but I'm just not sure.

I'm sure New York will be looking into what charges they can bring. And attorneys will be looking at civil suits as well. A pardon, if not refused, is basically admitting to the crime, which makes a civil suit a sort of slam dunk.
 
DevilsAdvocate said:
Maybe. It makes it more complicated. The charges where related to mail fraud, which is federal, and money laundering, which appears to be at least mostly federal.

I have not looked into the details, but these are really Federal charges. There is a decent chance that there are underlying State laws violated as well, but I'm just not sure.

I'm sure New York will be looking into what charges they can bring. And attorneys will be looking at civil suits as well. A pardon, if not refused, is basically admitting to the crime, which makes a civil suit a sort of slam dunk.
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Thanks.

Of course, the civil suits have to be brought by the defrauded MAGA-idiots. :)
 
DevilsAdvocate said:
....
I have not looked into the details, but these are really Federal charges. There is a decent chance that there are underlying State laws violated as well, but I'm just not sure.
....
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But surely fraud is also a state crime?
New York federal prosecutors on Thursday charged President Donald Trump's former adviser Steve Bannon and three others with defrauding donors of hundreds of thousands of dollars as part of a fundraising campaign purportedly aimed at supporting Trump's border wall.
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https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/20/politics/bannon-build-the-wall-indictment/index.html
 
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