Our DNA is mutating

[Hawkeye]

Damn, Admiral already beat me to the 31 flavors of Cosmic Light joke.

As an interesting aside, it was not always obvious to scientists that DNA is a double helix. Linus Pauling, a two time Nobel Prize winner, thought it was a triple helix. Earlier than that, scientists were convinced that the genetic material of life was a protein. Even James Watson (whom I had the great pleasure of meeting) and Francis Crick; who eventually co-elucidated the correct structure, at first incorrectly predicted that the phosphate backbone of DNA was on the inside of the helix. Chemistry and model building showed that these early theories were too unstable to be correct. If DNA with 3 strands is too wobbly to work, I would really like to see how 1024 strands stay together. Oh okay, crystalline beings on higher dimensional levels. That explains it.

Anyways,
I always find it amazing how these woo sites are able to cram so many legitimate scientific words and principles into sentences which amount to absolute bullsh*t. It’s very frustrating that anyone wastes their time on this pseudoscientific garbage. There are so many fascinating and elegant processes at work in biology that are actually REAL, I don’t see why we need to make stuff up. DNA is cool already, leave it alone!

 

[Deetee]

If DNA with 3 strands is too wobbly to work, I would really like to see how 1024 strands stay together. Oh okay, crystalline beings on higher dimensional levels. That explains it.

Perhaps a 1024-strand version of DNA is quite feasible if one uses "amino acids" as the base constituent of the helices (as they seem to imagine happens with DNA currently)

 

[Mojo]

Just occured to me to clarify: I am referring to every cell of the body.

Including red blood cells?

 

[Loon]

I would like to hear more about the two rare and fantastically debilitating duplications.
Also: If DNA mutation can have such profound affect on the physical form, what affect does it have, if any in known science on brain activity? How about in theory?

Trisomy 13 (having 3 copies of chromosome 13) is called Patau Syndrome. The median lifespan is 3 days. It occurs in one out of ever 10000 births or so in the US. Source

Trisomy 18 is Edwards Syndrome and appears to be about as common as 13 (My original source seems to have been off as far as frequency). It's not automatically fatal, but it does cause a great deal of deformity. Source

As far as the effect on brain activity, there can be many. Cancer, for example is caused by multiple mutations in DNA. Can a mutation in a mature brain make that brain smarter? I suppose it's possible, though I don't know what the mechanism might be. Regardless, the odds are REALLY slim.

 

[born]

Can you tell us a bit more about this?
What type of contamination? How has it altered your DNA? How can an epidemiologist demonstrate alterations in DNA? What exactly is a bioremediation expert?

Type of contamination: raw sewage and gas station effluent contaminated marsh water. Over the years the microbialogical activity was severely altered by the onslaught of contaminants. One of the most unnerving finds was a heavy concentration of insect eating fungus that wiped out the bulk of the ground dwelling insects. Also serious bacteria, ecoli, toxic algae, and mutated toxic mold, or fungi, and yeast strains. In otherwords, a a molatof cocktail made up of live organisms.
My genes are altered, but I was never given the more indepth scientific explaination of how they are different now. RNA alteration was also suggested.
The epidemiologist knew this as he is also an environmental engineer. These types of scientists are very up to speed on the microbe and genome sciences, as they use microbes in environmental cleanup nowadays. That means it is necessary to know what is out there, and what the implications of accidental human exposure beyond the projected degrees may imply, environmentally and medically.
Bioremediation expert specializes in the arena of environmental and contaminated site consultation, assessment, and cleanup. Some are also involved in the formulation of corrective products, some chemical, some involving live organisms.

 

[born]

Trisomy 13 (having 3 copies of chromosome 13) is called Patau Syndrome. The median lifespan is 3 days. It occurs in one out of ever 10000 births or so in the US. Source

Trisomy 18 is Edwards Syndrome and appears to be about as common as 13 (My original source seems to have been off as far as frequency). It's not automatically fatal, but it does cause a great deal of deformity. Source

As far as the effect on brain activity, there can be many. Cancer, for example is caused by multiple mutations in DNA. Can a mutation in a mature brain make that brain smarter? I suppose it's possible, though I don't know what the mechanism might be. Regardless, the odds are REALLY slim.

The multiple mutations one is of interest to me. I have another recent post here where I outline my exposure in general. I was told that I may eventually get some form of cancer, best guess being leukemia due to this exposure. According to bioremediation specialist, a pathologist, and my chief physician, I should not be here. The exposure should have killed me, and the fact that nearly 4 years later I am still here is baffling some of these people. So what could you say about differences in my DNA that might explain why I am still alive when I should be dead? Anything DNA related that could be relevant?

 

[Dr Adequate]

The multiple mutations one is of interest to me. I have another recent post here where I outline my exposure in general. I was told that I may eventually get some form of cancer, best guess being leukemia due to this exposure. According to bioremediation specialist, a pathologist, and my chief physician, I should not be here. The exposure should have killed me, and the fact that nearly 4 years later I am still here is baffling some of these people. So what could you say about differences in my DNA that might explain why I am still alive when I should be dead? Anything DNA related that could be relevant?

Hi. No. Nothing about your DNA. You were lucky. A thousand people in your place would have been less lucky. But you were lucky. This is why you are telling the story of your extraordinary survival rather than a dead person telling the story of his near-inevitable death.

 

[Lynx2174]

Including red blood cells?

Ooh, now that IS a good question. I second the enquiry regarding those hardworking erethrocytes. You should ask that to every DNA woo person.

 

[Starthinker]

Including red blood cells?

My expertise is in another area. Can anyone explain this? I know they are produced all the time and if I lose enough I die. Do they not have DNA?

On a side note, years before Osmosis Jones I wrote a story about two red blood cells who are in a body that is knocked unconscious and they take over the brain and use the body to figure out who got him. They hung out at the Spleen Cafe and prior to running the brain they worked at the Lung Oxygen Mines and made deliveries all over the body.

 

[Deetee]

Type of contamination: raw sewage and gas station effluent contaminated marsh water. Over the years the microbialogical activity was severely altered by the onslaught of contaminants. One of the most unnerving finds was a heavy concentration of insect eating fungus that wiped out the bulk of the ground dwelling insects. Also serious bacteria, ecoli, toxic algae, and mutated toxic mold, or fungi, and yeast strains. In otherwords, a a molatof cocktail made up of live organisms.

None of these organisms could alter your genome. Certainly some toxins and forms of radiation (even UV light) can act as mutagens, but I have never heard of micro-organisms doing so. Do you have any references to point us to as evidence? [Even retroviruses which insert proviral DNA copies of themselves into host nuclear DNA do not act as mutagens, they merely interfere with some of the cellular functions and induce apoptosis].

My genes are altered, but I was never given the more indepth scientific explaination of how they are different now. RNA alteration was also suggested.

By whom? Only a molecular biologist could tell you if you possess any mutant genes, and with rather specific and specialised lab technology. How are you different from what you were before? Do you have 2 heads?

The epidemiologist knew this as he is also an environmental engineer. These types of scientists are very up to speed on the microbe and genome sciences, as they use microbes in environmental cleanup nowadays. That means it is necessary to know what is out there, and what the implications of accidental human exposure beyond the projected degrees may imply, environmentally and medically.

There may certainly be medical implications from exposure to unusual micro-organisms. DNA mutation is not one of them. If what you say is true, you should be able to point to the published evidence. Having an environmental epidemiologist (someone who studies the distribution and demographics of things such as diseases [but not their molecular genomics]) suggest you have mutant DNA does not make it so.

Bioremediation expert specializes in the arena of environmental and contaminated site consultation, assessment, and cleanup. Some are also involved in the formulation of corrective products, some chemical, some involving live organisms.

So why would one of these know anything about molecular genomics?

 

[Hawkeye]

Perhaps a 1024-strand version of DNA is quite feasible if one uses "amino acids" as the base constituent of the helices (as they seem to imagine happens with DNA currently)

I haven't heard anything about this before, but its more pseudoscientific nonsense.

DNA stands for deoxyribonucleic acid. The name comes from the fact that the double helix is primarily composed of the sugar deoxyribose and 4 main nucleic acids. To say that 1024 stranded "DNA" could be composed of amino acids is, at the very least, grammatically incorrect. When you put amino acids together, you get proteins. When you put nucleotides together, you get DNA. A 1024 helix composed of amino acids would cease to be DNA at all, it would be a protein. (Assuming such a protein is even chemically possible).

More importantly, this violates the central dogma upon which all biology is based:

DNA -> RNA -> Proteins

All life on earth has followed this same basic rule for the past 3 billion years or so. All of your cellular activities are intimately dependent on this process. An alteration in the structure of DNA is such a revolutionary change that it would require billions of other elements to all adapt at once for a cell to continue functioning. For example, an amazingly complex group of proteins and an enzyme called RNA polymerase latch on to DNA and transcribe the message on one strand into RNA. How will this enzyme, along with the thousands of proteins associated with it, suddenly be able to work with 3, 20, or 1024 helices of DNA? How will this DNA condense into chromatin or chromosomes? How will gene repression and activation work? Given that our genome fits just fine into 2 strands, what exactly is in the extra 1022? (certainly not any common sense genes). No one considers these problems when cooking up new theories about “DNA mutation” because of the simple truth that they know nothing about the way DNA really works.

friggin idiots.

Including red blood cells?

My expertise is in another area. Can anyone explain this? I know they are produced all the time and if I lose enough I die. Do they not have DNA?

Nope. RBCs have no nuclei, so they have no DNA. They're designed to do one thing only: hold as much hemoglobin as possible.

 

[born]

Including red blood cells?

Yes, including red blood cells.

 

[born]

Yes, including red blood cells.

Oops. Wrong answer. Didn't read the whole post. Ignore the yes, including red blood cells.

 

[born]

Hawkeye:

It sounds like you know what you are talking about.
Care to comment on my previous posts, with the exception of the Oops one?
DNA->RNA->Proteins fits into conversations I have had in my exposure matter with people I could see and identify..

 

[Mojo]

Oops. Wrong answer. Didn't read the whole post. Ignore the yes, including red blood cells.

Which part of "Including red blood cells?" did you fail to read? It was only four words and a question mark.

 

[born]

Which part of "Including red blood cells?" did you fail to read? It was only four words and a question mark.

Ya, that part.

 

[Mojo]

Ya, that part.

Which part? Not only did you quote the post in its entirety, but you also repeated all four words in your answer.

And since you answered the question it is apparent that you didn't miss the question mark.

Or was the post you hadn't read yet Hawkeye's?

 

[born]

Which part? Not only did you quote the post in its entirety, but you also repeated all four words in your answer.

And since you answered the question it is apparent that you didn't miss the question mark.

Or was the post you hadn't read yet Hawkeye's?

I skipped a few posts. WhenI went back to check, I realized my comment was off the mark.

 

[Prospero]

Hmm... More helixes in the DNA. Damn, guess that means I need to go back and redo the xray crystallography I did last week. :-\

 

[blutoski]

My expertise is in another area. Can anyone explain this? I know they are produced all the time and if I lose enough I die. Do they not have DNA?

They start out with a nucleus, but it degrades before they begin their oxygen-carrying role. They need to be small to fit through capillaries. They don't need DNA: mature RBCs do not divide, but merely die after a several hours.

On a side note, years before Osmosis Jones I wrote a story about two red blood cells who are in a body that is knocked unconscious and they take over the brain and use the body to figure out who got him. They hung out at the Spleen Cafe and prior to running the brain they worked at the Lung Oxygen Mines and made deliveries all over the body.

Cool. When I was a kid, I read Blood Music, and it changed me.