Origin of the Swan Lake story

[Rolfe]

My own view, and I'm no expert, is that the swans represent ideals rather than carry a literal plot-line per se. Namely, the iconic battle between good and evil as symbolized by Odile as the black swan being evil and Odette in white representing good. All the more symbolic because they are both danced by the same person. And of course, good triumphs.

I wouldn't dispute any of that for a moment. This is a work of art with more than one layer to it. I'm only looking at a possible source for certain aspects of the basic plot - principally the hero Seigfried falling in love with the leader of the swan maidens (valkyries), then back in the real world being tricked into proposing to the wrong girl, with this oathbreaking eventually resulting in his death. (Siegfried does not commit suicide in Götterdämmerung, he is murdered as retribution for his apparent treachery, but Brünnhilde does subsequently commit suicide.)

 

[Tassman]

I wouldn't dispute any of that for a moment. This is a work of art with more than one layer to it. I'm only looking at a possible source for certain aspects of the basic plot - principally the hero Seigfried falling in love with the leader of the swan maidens (valkyries), then back in the real world being tricked into proposing to the wrong girl, with this oathbreaking eventually resulting in his death. (Siegfried does not commit suicide in Götterdämmerung, he is murdered as retribution for his apparent treachery, but Brünnhilde does subsequently commit suicide.)

I understand your point but I think you are stretching it a bit to compare Swan Lake ballet with the Ring Cycle, which is basically a reworked telling of the ancient Nordic myths about gods and giants and dwarves etc. and the future of the universe. The Valkyries ride flying horses (hence the wings on their helmets I guess) whose job it is to transport the bodies of fallen heroes to Valhalla, the home of the gods. Conversely, the swans have much less lofty goals being merely based upon an old fairytale. The only real connection is that in both stories 'true love' carries the day - sort of.

 

[Rolfe]

I'm not comparing Swan Lake to the entire Ring cycle (which is actually a re-working of German mythology, you know, that whole Rhine thing), I'm comparing a couple of specific plot elements in Swan Lake to a couple of very similar plot elements in Götterdämmerung, and noting that the hero has the same name in both works, and that Swan Lake was written at the exact time when Götterdämmerung-fever was sweeping the musical world.

I am also not making up the connection between valkyries and swan maidens, this is an integral part of the mythology, which as I said is often used by costume designers when designing valkyrie costumes. Brynhild/Brünnhilde is explicitly a swan maiden in some of the Nordic versions of the story.

 

[Tassman]

I'm not comparing Swan Lake to the entire Ring cycle (which is actually a re-working of German mythology, you know, that whole Rhine thing), I'm comparing a couple of specific plot elements in Swan Lake to a couple of very similar plot elements in Götterdämmerung, and noting that the hero has the same name in both works, and that Swan Lake was written at the exact time when Götterdämmerung-fever was sweeping the musical world.

I am also not making up the connection between valkyries and swan maidens, this is an integral part of the mythology, which as I said is often used by costume designers when designing valkyrie costumes. Brynhild/Brünnhilde is explicitly a swan maiden in some of the Nordic versions of the story.

I understand where you are coming from, but the only “specific plot elements” between the ballet and the Ring operas are, in my view, that of the leading protagonists being unwittingly tricked and deceived by love. I ‘ve never come across Brunhilda as a swan maiden before – but then some of these ancient legends have several variations.

 

[Vixen]

There seems to be quite a few myths of ladies in lakes. For example, there is Aino, in the Kalevala (a very ancient tale):

It relates that she was the beautiful sister of Joukahainen. Her brother, having lost a singing contest to the storied Väinämöinen, promised Aino's "hands and feet" in marriage if Väinämöinen would save him from drowning in the swamp into which Joukahainen had been thrown. Aino's mother was pleased at the idea of marrying her daughter to such a famous and well born person, but Aino did not want to marry such an old man. Rather than submit to this fate, Aino drowned herself (or ended up as a nix). However, she returned to taunt the grieving Väinämöinen as a perch.[4]

The name Aino, meaning "the only one", was invented by Elias Lönnrot who composed the Kalevala. In the original poems she was mentioned as "the only daughter" or "the only sister" (aino tyttönen, aino sisko).

wiki

Then there is the Lady of Shalott by Tennyson:

She leaves her tower, finds a boat upon which she writes her name, and floats down the river to Camelot. She dies before arriving at the palace. Among the knights and ladies who see her is Lancelot, who thinks she is lovely.

"Who is this? And what is here?"
And in the lighted palace near
Died the sound of royal cheer;
And they crossed themselves for fear,
All the Knights at Camelot;
But Lancelot mused a little space
He said, "She has a lovely face;
God in his mercy lend her grace,
The Lady of Shalott."

wiki

A swan also figures in the ancient myth of Tuonela, the place of the dead, which is separated from the world of the living by a river.

Tuonela is described as being at the northernmost part of the world but is sectioned apart from the world of the living by a great divide. In the divide flows the dark river of Tuonela. The river is wild, and the dead can be seen trying to swim across it. The dead must cross the river, either by a thread bridge, swimming, or taking a boat piloted by the daughter of Tuoni.[1] The river is guarded by a black swan that sings death spells. At times living people visited Tuonela to gather information and spells.

wiki

Sibelius took this swan and created a tonal piece called 'The Swan of Tuonela'

The tone poem is scored for a small orchestra of cor anglais, oboe, bass clarinet, two bassoons, four horns, three trombones, timpani, bass drum, harp, and divided strings. The cor anglais is the voice of the swan, and its solo is one of the best known solos in the orchestral literature for that instrument. The music paints a gossamer, transcendental image of a mystical swan floating through Tuonela, the realm of the dead. Lemminkäinen, the hero of the epic, has been tasked with killing the sacred swan; but on the way, he is shot with a poisoned arrow and dies. In the next part of the story he is restored to life.

wiki

I think the common theme is of charmers, beautiful maidens, trickery and shape shifting characters.

The figure of the swan is associated with a great deal of symbolism and many beliefs and myths. In the ancient beliefs of the Baltic-Finnic peoples, the swan was thought to have been a human broken into becoming a bird. It was believed to have a contact to the different worlds, and it was not to be harmed. A swan swam in the black river of Tuonela in the Kalevala epic, and the hero Lemminkäinen loses his life when setting out to hunt it. Not all swans are white. Europeans saw black swans for the first time in Australia in 1697.

gallen-kallela

My 2p worth is that swans are extremely beautiful elegant creatures (when on water!) so the literary comparisons to beautiful young maidens is not surprising, with very strong taboos against killing them or eating them. (In the UK you can eat a duck but not a swan.)

 

[MRC_Hans]

I'm not comparing Swan Lake to the entire Ring cycle (which is actually a re-working of German mythology, you know, that whole Rhine thing), I'm comparing a couple of specific plot elements in Swan Lake to a couple of very similar plot elements in Götterdämmerung, and noting that the hero has the same name in both works, and that Swan Lake was written at the exact time when Götterdämmerung-fever was sweeping the musical world.

I am also not making up the connection between valkyries and swan maidens, this is an integral part of the mythology, which as I said is often used by costume designers when designing valkyrie costumes. Brynhild/Brünnhilde is explicitly a swan maiden in some of the Nordic versions of the story.

I did not imply that you made stuff up. Just that the original Valkyries, as far as we know, were in the shape of lady warriors on flying horses. Nordic mythology has been used and often abused endlessly, and we really don't have any written account of it that is not somehow biased.

Hans

 

[Marras]

I did not imply that you made stuff up. Just that the original Valkyries, as far as we know, were in the shape of lady warriors on flying horses. Nordic mythology has been used and often abused endlessly, and we really don't have any written account of it that is not somehow biased.

Codex Regius explicitly calls the swan maidens that Völundr and his brothers meet valkyries: Þar váru hjá þeim álftarhamir þeira. Þat váru valkyrjur. (http://www.voluspa.org/volundarkvida1-5.htm). Codex Regius is the main source for Poetic Edda.

I'm not certain if there are any explicit mentions of flying horses. There are mentions of flying valkyries and valkyries riding horses, but I don't know if there are any instances of valkyries riding flying horses.

 

[Marras]

There seems to be quite a few myths of ladies in lakes. For example, there is Aino, in the Kalevala (a very ancient tale):

That wikipedia page for Aino is one of those particularly bad wikipedia pages.

Elias Lönnrot put the Song Challenge and Aino sequence together from three different folk poem motifs:

* song challenge ("Kilpalaulanta") where Joukahainen promises his sister to Väinämöinen after he loses the magical battle

* fishing Vellamo's daughter ("Vellamon neidon onginta") where Väinämöinen catches the daughter of the water spirit Vellamo but she escapes back to water

* hanged maiden ("Hirttäytynyt neito") where a young maiden hangs herself to avoid marriage

All three were originally separate poems, though Lukkańi Huotari sung Vellamo's daughter and Song Challenge (in that order) together to Lönnrot (SKVR I1.184)

All versions of The Song Challenge that were collected before Kalevala was composed end with Joukahainen's mother expressing how happy she is that her daughter marries a mighty man. No versions have the daughter commit suicide afterwards, that connection is 100% Lönnrot.

If you are interested in how Lönnrot put Kalevala together from original poems, the best sources are two books by Väinö Kaukonen:

* Vanhan Kalevalan kokoonpano, SKS 213, 1945

* Elias Lönnrotin Kalevalan toinen painos, SKS 247, 1956

(Note that there is also 1939 printing of SKS 213, that is his original dissertation).

 

[Rolfe]

I'm not certain if there are any explicit mentions of flying horses. There are mentions of flying valkyries and valkyries riding horses, but I don't know if there are any instances of valkyries riding flying horses.

The horses that the valkyries ride in Wagner's version certainly fly, but they have neither wings nor feathers. Apparently they just do it.

This particular line of discussion seems to have started because I mentioned that the well-known fact that valkyries are swan maidens in certain of these legends (and indeed that in one of them Brynhild herself refers to the stealing of her swan-feather cloak) has led certain costume designers to use this in valkyrie costume designs. As I said, the ROH production in the 1980s had them in actual feather cloaks.

Someone protested that no, the costume designers were only referencing the fact that the valkyries were riding flying horses, presumably winged, in these designs (how they knew this I don't know). But we're talking Wagner here, and the horses his valkyries ride are not winged. I'm not sure where this is getting us. Marras has confirmed the valkyrie/swan maiden link from the poetic Edda.

I'm also not sure what a list of other legends involving ladies in lakes and swans has to do with anything, unless some better claim for one or more of these legends to have influenced Tchaikowsky (or his librettist) can be made.

 

[Marras]

Marras has confirmed the valkyrie/swan maiden link from the poetic Edda.

I checked the text a bit more closely including looking at the digitized version of the manuscript (though, to be honest, my skills on Old Norse fall far short of really understanding the text).

The valkyries as swan maiden reference is not from actual poem but it is from the compiler's comments on the poem. It's at line 10 of this image: http://www.germanicmythology.com/works/CodRegIMAGES/CR35.jpg

But anyway, it shows that connecting swan maidens with valkyries had already happened by the latter half of the 13th century.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Codex Regius explicitly calls the swan maidens that Völundr and his brothers meet valkyries: Þar váru hjá þeim álftarhamir þeira. Þat váru valkyrjur. (http://www.voluspa.org/volundarkvida1-5.htm). Codex Regius is the main source for Poetic Edda.

I'm not certain if there are any explicit mentions of flying horses. There are mentions of flying valkyries and valkyries riding horses, but I don't know if there are any instances of valkyries riding flying horses.

Again, all written accounts of Nordic mythology were made by people not believing in it. Most centuries later.

In other words: We don't really know.

Hans

 

[Marras]

Again, all written accounts of Nordic mythology were made by people not believing in it. Most centuries later.

In other words: We don't really know.

That works the other way too: we don't know that valkyries originally rode flying horses.

 

[MRC_Hans]

That works the other way too: we don't know that valkyries originally rode flying horses.

Quite true. We seem to know they were in charge of collecting worthy souls of fallen warriors and take them to Valhalla.

Hans

 

[Rolfe]

I don't think what ancient Nordic people really believed is terribly relevant to the question of whether one 19th century drama might have been partly based on another 19th century drama which was itself founded on a 13th century version of that mythology.

My question was, initially, are the similarities between Swan Lake and Götterdämmerung actually evidence that Tchaikowsky (or his librettist) was consciously influenced by the plot of the opera that the musical world was buzzing with at the time the ballet was written.

These similarities are the name of the hero (a name which is inextricably linked with the hero of the German Nibelungenlied, from which Wagner took some of the names if not an awful lot of the actual plot for his opera), his falling in love with the leader of the swan maidens/valkyries (who are conflated in recorded legend irrespective of what dark-ages Germans or Scandinavians might actually have believed), his being tricked, back in the real world, into proposing to the wrong girl, his unwitting oath-breaking leading to his death, and the drama ending with the nearby body of water overflowing and flooding the stage.

I'm getting the message that posters here think all this was pure coincidence. No way could Tchaikowsky have included elements in his ballet as homage to the opera that was the talk of the musical establishment at the time (and whose plot had been in the public domain for over 20 years). No way might he have thought that there was a band-wagon that might be profitably jumped on. All pure coincidence.

But nobody has come up with any other possible source for these plot elements. So it was pure chance that these elements were invented de novo and incorporated into Swan Lake at this particular time, it wasn't that there's another source that has similar plot elements. In fact the "best guess" from those who have looked at the possible sources for Swan Lake is The Stolen Veil, which seems itself simply to be another "nick the swan maiden's feathers and she'll have to stay with you" story, of which there are quite a few, but without the hero's name, or the proposing to the wrong girl, or indeed most of the Swan Lake story. My own view, comparing The Stolen Veil and Götterdämmerung, is that Swan Lake is overall closer to Götterdämmerung than to The Stolen Veil.

So thanks for the devil's advocacy - and I genuinely mean that, I was doubtful that anyone would reply to the thread at all - but I'm not honestly buying the coincidence theory. The number of similar plot points and the timing seem to me to favour conscious influence.

 

[Rolfe]

I checked the text a bit more closely including looking at the digitized version of the manuscript (though, to be honest, my skills on Old Norse fall far short of really understanding the text).

The valkyries as swan maiden reference is not from actual poem but it is from the compiler's comments on the poem. It's at line 10 of this image: http://www.germanicmythology.com/works/CodRegIMAGES/CR35.jpg

But anyway, it shows that connecting swan maidens with valkyries had already happened by the latter half of the 13th century.

Thanks, I just noticed your post (the thread had gone on to another page). Indeed, that's my point. It's not whether 13th century or indeed dark ages pre-Christian peoples believed that valkyries were swan maidens that's important here, it's that 19th century writers were aware of the conflation of the two archetypes.

One book I read recently declared that there were three classes of valkyrie - the terrifying inhuman death-goddesses, the human maidens called by Odin to be his shieldmaidens and who retained their human identities and went back to live in their human lives periodically, and the swan-maiden category. This is at odds with what I had read previously, which had only two categories, with the human shieldmaidens and the swan maidens being treated as the same group.

Who's right there isn't really relevant. It's simply more evidence of the conflation of the valkyrie figure and the swan maiden figure in modern takes on the mythology. As I said, there's a poem or a text somewhere where Brynhild declares that Agnar stole her feathers, which forced her to grant him victory in battle although Odin had instructed her to give the voctory to Hjalmgunnar.

Whether or not anyone back in the 4th century believed it, valkyries as swan maidens has been an accepted conflation for quite some time, and was certainly something artists in the 19th century were aware of. It really isn't tenable to argue that Tchaikowsky couldn't have been aware that swan maidens and valkyries were aspects of the same archetype, in the 19th century.

 

[Rolfe]

Here's my best shot for Brynhild and the feather-cloak. It's possible I may have misremembered this passage, or perhaps there is another similar one elsewhere? It's from Helreid Brynhildr, and it's the translation by Andy Orchard as I can't read Old Norse at all.

The courageous king had the feather-cloaks
of us eight sisters placed under an oak;
I was twelve years old, if you want to know,
when I swore oaths to the young prince.

Everyone who knew me in Din-Dales
called me War-maiden wearing a helmet.

Then I let the old man of the Goths,
Hjalmgunnar, go straight off to Hel;
I gave the victory to Auda's young brother [Agnar];
Odin became very angry with me for that.

Nothing there that Agnar pinched the feathers to make her give him the victory. In the Sigrdrífumál she simply seems to be saying she felt sorry for Agnar. So I don't know if I'm misremembering about his stealing her feathers from that bit in the Helreid, or if there's another source I've also read that includes it. But the bit about Brynhild and her sisters having feather-cloaks is telling, and that's in the poem in the Codex itself, not a commentary.

But really, the question is, were 19th century writers aware that valkyries were sometimes portrayed as swan maidens, and the answer to that is unequivocally yes.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Various cloaks, including feather cloaks,
certainly ARE part of Nordic mythology.

Hans

 

[Rolfe]

Which would be interesting if we were talking about Nordic mythology. We're talking about 19th century music drama.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Which would be interesting if we were talking about Nordic mythology. We're talking about 19th century music drama.

We are? No problem.

Hans

 

[Rolfe]

I would have thought that was pretty obvious from the title of the thread, the OP, and most of the posts I have been making.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make, but if it's that in the 19th century no writer would have understood swan maidens and valkyries to be two aspects of the same archetype, that ship already sailed.