One world government?

jay gw

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I support the idea of the world having one world government, but with some qualifications. The government I imagine would look something like this:

* It would be democratic.
* It would be composed of all the nations that wanted to be part of it.
* It would allow for entry but also for exit if dissatisfaction set in.
* It would be composed of national representatives in a central body, and a leader/president.
* It would include national bodies/member nations would keep their legislatures.
* It would make laws on trade, foreign policy, law and order, other areas as agreed on by members.

People argue against 1 world government as if it's the worst idea ever. Here are a couple of benefits to it:

* Poorer nations would have access to the technology, expertise, and frankly, the honest governments they so desperately need. It's a fact that most of the world's poverty is created. Most of the poverty and human rights violations are NOT accidental. They're the policy of bad governments.

The example from Iraq is quite telling. The public KNEW they were getting the abuse from bad leaders. They KNEW they could have a different government. And when the opportunity came by, they took the opportunity.

What lesson is there? Everybody wants honesty in government, and to lead themselves. If you can find a group you know for a fact wants bad government, then please list them in your replies, and the links so we can see this for ourselves. You can't, but don't let it stop you.

One world government would also solve the inefficiences problem. Why should neighboring countries that are basically the same country (Canada and the United States, Sweden and Norway, Australia and New Zealand) have redundant governments? Is there any GOOD reason for it? What?

This is 2005, not 1805. The world is about free trade, and free migration. Why does every country need it's own set of separate laws, and it's own separate parliament? There's no good reason for it.

Objections - when people argue against 1 world government, they tend to say the following:

Objection - "What happens if a one world government falls into the hands of another Hitler?"

Answer - obviously there are many ways to prevent a tyrant type from taking power. How many stable democracies have been hijacked by tyrants? It doesn't happen when you design the safeguards in. There is zero probability that somehow a Bangladeshi tyrant would take the world over. It's a silly idea.
I've already mentioned that countries can, with notice, come and go. There's no danger to any individual state.

Objection - "Politics is a process of evolution. How do you know your government is the best type?"

Answer - You never get guarantees. I've already mentioned that membership would be somewhat voluntary, and that alone is enough to keep the form adapting to the changing world. Also, the constitution of the 1 world government would be very flexible. It would allow for changes.

There are no real objections to the idea of 1 world government. Any danger is far outweighed by the huge benefits most of the poorer countries in the world would immediately get by being part of a larger, richer, and better run governmental system.

It's one world.

It should be one government too.
 
Do I pay taxes to this world government? If so, forget it. The farther my money goes from home, the less I have a clue what it's doing.

~~ Paul
 
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos said:
Do I pay taxes to this world government? If so, forget it. The farther my money goes from home, the less I have a clue what it's doing.

~~ Paul
You're missing the point Paul. He's saying that The World is your home and your nation and that the whole people of the world are your countrymen.
Your taxes don't leave your home if they work towards improving the World as a whole.
 
lifegazer said:
You're missing the point Paul. He's saying that The World is your home and your nation and that the whole people of the world are your countrymen.
Your taxes don't leave your home if they work towards improving the World as a whole.

Oh, hush you. You don't even believe that those people, or indeed the world, are real. ;)
 
It's another beautiful dream, and I wish it could happen, but the primary problem I see, as you present it, is that a voluntary global governing body is not an efficient means of bringing these things to the people that need them the most. The governments most in need of submission to a world government are aso the ones least likely to join, because such a government would (in theory) override those decisions the local government makes, if they are in disagreement. And those that belong being free to leave almost guarantees that they will, the moment a policy they want to apply to their people disgrees with the O.G.

On the other hand, a strictly mandatory singular government would be seen as intolerant and inconsiderate of the needs and desires of the peopes of local populaces.

Global laws are also somewhat difficult to make and enforce, since there are different considerations to every law from every area of the world. We Americans, for example, might have issues against hunting for fur or the deliberate breeding of fur animals, but what if that represents the sole income of some small nation (Not sure if it does, but it's an example)? What laws can be passed regarding 'illegal' drugs, for example, when some nations make most of their income growing said drugs? And how could a unified global government resolve the religious differences that arise, when multiple faiths claim the same land as sacred ground?

I highly doubt we will ever see an effective global government in our lifetimes, nor in the lifetimes of our children. A LOT of cultural homogenization has to occur first, and a LOT of bigotry and zealotry has to be dissolved - as well as greed and the ever-present superiority complex that many nations are built upon.

Still, I support the theory of OWG. I just wish there were a successful way of making a mandatory Global Council that wouldn't insult the self-esteem of many nations.
 
I support the idea of the world having one world government, but with some qualifications. The government I imagine would look something like this:

* It would be democratic.
* It would be composed of all the nations that wanted to be part of it.
* It would allow for entry but also for exit if dissatisfaction set in.
* It would be composed of national representatives in a central body, and a leader/president.
* It would include national bodies/member nations would keep their legislatures.
* It would make laws on trade, foreign policy, law and order, other areas as agreed on by members.


Sounds a bit like a future EU maybe, and I think you need only look at the British public's objections to that to see the problems with realising such a government. No democratic state would submit to a government with non democratic members. I voted in favour though.

Edit:sorry I really need to master this quote thing:D
 
jay gw said:
* It would be democratic.

Pure, Republican, Federal- what kind of "democratic"?

jay gw said:
* It would be composed of all the nations that wanted to be part of it.
* It would allow for entry but also for exit if dissatisfaction set in.

If any country chose either of these options, then it's not a "one world government", is it?

jay gw said:
* It would be composed of national representatives in a central body, and a leader/president.
* It would include national bodies/member nations would keep their legislatures.
* It would make laws on trade, foreign policy, law and order, other areas as agreed on by members.

This is just adding another layer, a BIG layer of bureaucracy on top of an already bloated and impersonal apparatus. How is this going to result in anything but stagnation and inefficiency?

jay gw said:
Here are a couple of benefits to it:

:rolleyes: Speculation, but let's take it point-by-point:

jay gw said:
* Poorer nations would have access to the technology, expertise, and frankly, the honest governments they so desperately need.

How is this new layer of bureaucracy going to suddenly make people honest?

The tech gap between developed nations and underdeveloped ones is an issue, but does robbing Peter to pay P'takn'gai really sound equitable to you? How else are you going to give the poorer nations "access" to industrial technology, other than brute force?

jay gw said:
It's a fact that most of the world's poverty is created. Most of the poverty and human rights violations are NOT accidental. They're the policy of bad governments.

Do you have evidence to support this? How does this explain poverty in developed nations with "democratic" governments?

jay gw said:
The example from Iraq is quite telling. The public KNEW they were getting the abuse from bad leaders. They KNEW they could have a different government. And when the opportunity came by, they took the opportunity.

I'm not touching this one. :rolleyes:

jay gw said:
What lesson is there? Everybody wants honesty in government,

If "everybody" wants it, why have we never seen it?
Oh, right. Humans lie, cheat, and steal.

jay gw said:
and to lead themselves.

Then why are there few (if any) anarchist or Pure democratic governments around?

jay gw said:
If you can find a group you know for a fact wants bad government, then please list them in your replies, and the links so we can see this for ourselves.

The Republican Party. It is based on cronyism and religious fundamentalism, neither of which make for "good government."

Same goes for Stalinism, Kim il Jong-ism, the Taliban, al-quaeda... seriously- do I have to go on? None of these people would join your NWO.

jay gw said:
One world government would also solve the inefficiences problem.

I disagree, it would make it exponentially worse.

jay gw said:
Why should neighboring countries that are basically the same country (Canada and the United States, Sweden and Norway, Australia and New Zealand) have redundant governments? Is there any GOOD reason for it? What?

Why should neighboring states (AZ & NM, NH & VT) have redundant governments? The larger the government, the more unresponsive it is towards the individual citizen, and different regions and different populations have concerns unique to themselves. Do I want to have to put an oilpan heater on my Arizona car because Canada sometimes gets too cold to start cars?

jay gw said:
This is 2005, not 1805. The world is about free trade, and free migration.

How are you going to have "trade" between a single entity? You will have to have sub-governments (or at least "regional departments of trade" or something)- as you said; and that just makes your "overgovernment" redundant and wastful.

jay gw said:
Why does every country need it's own set of separate laws, and it's own separate parliament? There's no good reason for it.

See above.

jay gw said:
Objections - when people argue against 1 world government, they tend to say the following:

Objection - "What happens if a one world government falls into the hands of another Hitler?"

Answer - obviously there are many ways to prevent a tyrant type from taking power. How many stable democracies have been hijacked by tyrants? It doesn't happen when you design the safeguards in. There is zero probability that somehow a Bangladeshi tyrant would take the world over. It's a silly idea.
I've already mentioned that countries can, with notice, come and go. There's no danger to any individual state.

Well, this is not one of my objections, but I will restate that if countries are "free to come and go" then it is not a "world government" at all, just some sort of bloated over-state.

jay gw said:
Objection - "Politics is a process of evolution. How do you know your government is the best type?"

Again, not one of my objections. Although I believe it to be true, I fail to see how it specifically objects to any government in particular. I fact, it objects to the idea of government itself.

jay gw said:
There are no real objections to the idea of 1 world government.

I just gave you several.

jay gw said:
Any danger is far outweighed by the huge benefits most of the poorer countries in the world would immediately get by being part of a larger, richer, and better run governmental system.

Everybody would benefit from any government that will be "richer" or "better run" than those we have now. You have not demonstrated, apart from assertion, how your world government will accomplish this.

jay gw said:
It's one world.

It should be one government too.

It could be argued that it is 6 billion+ "worlds." It is one planet- although I fail to see how this makes a single government preferable.
 
zaayrdragon said:
I highly doubt we will ever see an effective global government in our lifetimes, nor in the lifetimes of our children. A LOT of cultural homogenization has to occur first, and a LOT of bigotry and zealotry has to be dissolved - as well as greed and the ever-present superiority complex that many nations are built upon.
Great post! There is too much that divides us as you eloquently point out. AIU tribalism is a significant human phenomenon. IMO it is unlikely that we are going to overcome our biases and differences anytime soon. Though it is not impossible.

If you consider the merging of East and West Germany and the plans to reunify North and South Korea I think you will have a good understanding of the problems. To merge governments the people must have similar enough economies not to mention cultures and values. The needs of the third world currently being led by dictators are quite different than the needs of Democratic societies with a relative good standard of living. If Germany had such difficulty with mutual cultures and South Korea realizes that there will be significant difficulties unless the standard of living is increased for the North Koreans even with similar culture then it is understandable that if you add to the mix differences in culture and values then you realize that you have a very difficult problem.

Edited to add: Wew that is a long sentence.
 
jay gw--That's quite the um, what word any I looking for?, um, diatribe, idea, manifesto, rant, thesis...I give up. Anyway...did this come to you in a dream? Have you been giving this matter a lot of thought lately? I am just curious. It's quite the well thought out plan you have there. Not that it be entirely correct, but it's well thought out, nontheless.
 
Lifegazer said:
You're missing the point Paul. He's saying that The World is your home and your nation and that the whole people of the world are your countrymen.
Your taxes don't leave your home if they work towards improving the World as a whole.
He can say whatever he wants, but I'm going to have no idea what this OWG, headquartered in Brussels or wherever, is doing with my money. The potential for graft and corruption and waste is overwhelming.

Maybe the OWG could be a charitable organization.

~~ Paul
 
Re: Re: One world government?

Piscivore said:
The Republican Party. It is based on cronyism and religious fundamentalism, neither of which make for "good government."

Same goes for Stalinism, Kim il Jong-ism, the Taliban, al-quaeda... seriously- do I have to go on? None of these people would join your NWO.
Excellent response. I mean that in all seriousness.

You left out the democratic party which is based on cronyism and demagoguery, neither of which make for "good government".

Oh, and libertarians, they can't make up their mind which is probably the worst form of government. ;)
 
I have an idea. If we think a world government could work, then lets experiment first here at home and eliminate the states. Perhaps even the local governments as well.
 
Another objection I don't think anybody has raised:

If joining the OWG is voluntary, then the most powerful countries won't touch it with a ten-foot pole. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose. In fact, I would argue that the existence of superpowers such as the United States and (in the future) China will make the existence of a world government economically impossible. And thank goodness.

Jeremy
 
Why should neighboring states (AZ & NM, NH & VT) have redundant governments? The larger the government, the more unresponsive it is towards the individual citizen, and different regions and different populations have concerns unique to themselves.

I didn't make my op clear enough - each nation that's part of the 1 world government would keep it's legislature/parliament.

The difference is that the parliaments would no longer have the same roles. They would have several functions:

1. To implement and administer the central governments policies.
2. To collect taxes/provide resources to the central government.
3. To make laws regarding certain local issues.

No country would give up their own policy makers. They would not be the only policy makers. There would be another level above them.

Remember, each nation must agree to join. The publics must agree by vote to join. They would want to become part of the 1 world government for several reasons:

* Transfers. Technology and capital are all concentrated in certain parts of the world. Many poorer nations have no electricity, others all have computers. Is this fair? Technology would be transferred freely from one to the other, and capital.

Do you know why certain countries cannot attract investment? It's because of their own laws. They create obstacles against investment for political reasons. The populations stay poor. What poor population would seriously say no to investment? Name one.

If the laws are identical, and the same leaders run both the rich and poor, capital will move freely.

* Corruption. Many governments are very corrupt. There is no honesty, and they work only for the rich. A 1 world government would be more honest, and would stop corruption in localities.

The reason that some governments are more corrupt is due to differences in economics. Some countries simply have no taxes to pay their state employees, and so they are forced to ask for bribes.

A 1 world government eliminates the differences in state employee pay scales between countries, meaning corruption comes almost completely to an end. There is very little corruption in rich countries. The reason is that their employees have money to pay their bills without demanding bribes.

Those are some reasons, out of many, why a 1 world government makes far more sense than tiny, isolated, scattered and poor countries.

Face the truth, many parts of the world will never develop unless they are aided by transfers. Anything else is just being foolish.

The world today is completely irrational. Wealth and technology are concentrated in 5 percent of the land, and the other has very little. And yet, there is "globalization" going on. Everything you're doing has impacts on others. And what they do will affect you.

It's time to put aside the old forms and redesign the world according to the practices, not keep old models and fit them on a new world. Globalization is already progressing towards this anyway, why try to continue with inflexible governments and arguments about "sovereignty"?
 
jay gw said:
They would want to become part of the 1 world government for several reasons:

* Transfers. Technology and capital are all concentrated in certain parts of the world. Many poorer nations have no electricity, others all have computers. Is this fair? Technology would be transferred freely from one to the other, and capital.

Technology isn't an issue. Apart from certain military and industrial secrets, technology is readily available just about everywhere. The problem is building the infrastructure to exploit it. As you say, this requires investment of capital, which is exactly why your one-world government is impossible. What country is going to want to join, knowing their money will be forcibly taken away? If they wanted to invest in poorer countries, they could do that now.

* Corruption. Many governments are very corrupt. There is no honesty, and they work only for the rich. A 1 world government would be more honest, and would stop corruption in localities.

Another reason why the utopian ideal of peace, love, and flowers for everyone won't work. Corrupt governments (which is an awful lot of them, of course) will want no part of such a thing.

Jeremy
 
jay gw said:
Face the truth, many parts of the world will never develop unless they are aided by transfers. Anything else is just being foolish.
Could you make an argument to support this proposition?
 
What country is going to want to join, knowing their money will be forcibly taken away? If they wanted to invest in poorer countries, they could do that now.

Nobody's money will be taken away. It is investment that will make poorer countries better, not welfare. Welfare is just handing money to someone who made mistakes. Why won't they just continue making mistakes?

It is about reform. Nations all must reform to allow for progress.

The world cannot exist any longer as isolated, scattered states. There must be an alignment of laws to allow for free movement.

Why negotiate treaties with 190 countries? Why not just make the same law apply in all places? Which one is better?
 

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