Old Testament Online

[arthwollipot]

Probably not. You can mangle Hebrew in myriad ways.

The pronunciation of the original name is Mal-ah-KHI.

Ah, it's all a load of malarkey anyway...

 

[FreakBoy]

As for Isaiah, one of the leading "Messianic Prophecies" would be Isaiah 7:11-20, to hear many Christians talk anyway. I'll state my view up front - I don't think it has anything to do with any event past the lives of those present at the time the "Prophecy" was given.

This is definitely one of the passages I have heard about, though I was always given the impression that there was more. Not in the sense that there's a verse that says, "And the Jews think..." while in the Christian bibles it says "And the Christians think.." but that there was a sum amount that provided a distinctly Jewish or distinctly Christian understanding of the prophecies regarding the messiah. I could, of course, have completely misunderstood.

The main word in contention is the word translated as Virgin in the King James version. A couple of years ago I stumbled across a reference that stated there was a problem with the Hebrew word used there. I spent quite a few hours searching around the net, looking for a Jewish reference that discussed the question. I found one, but didn't book mark it I'm afraid. But from what I was able to determine, it appears that even among Jews there is some disagreement on the word. Some say the word ("almah" in Hebrew I believe) means Virgin, others say Maiden, or Young Woman.

This I've heard though usually with much less mention of disagreement on the side of the Hebrew meaning.

Obviously (ignoring my stated opinion on Isaiah 7) if the prophecy concerned a young woman, and not a virgin, then there is no direct link between this passage and Jesus' birth hundreds of years later (200 I think). Of course the fact that the young woman was also apparently a prophetess conflicts with what we are told about Mary also. Isaiah 8.3 And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bare a son. Some may disagree that this is the same birth mentioned in 7.14, but I believe it is. At least some others agree with me.

I have to read this to see how I view this, I'll report back.

I woulda thought he would have ridden in standing, one foot on each, holding the reins in his teeth, at full gallop, firing a 6-shooter in each hand. But I guess he didn't want to scare the children

I think that would have been a better way to advertise.

One of my more favorite sections, I keep forgetting where it was... One of the synoptics, Jesus approaches a fig tree (which is remarked by the "author" to specifically be out of season) and condemns it to wither because it was bearing no fruit.

 

[FreakBoy]

Ah, it's all a load of malarkey anyway...

:: rim shot::

 

[This Guy]

SNIP

This I've heard though usually with much less mention of disagreement on the side of the Hebrew meaning.

One of the pages with Jewish views on the passage had a chart showing the Hebrew word, and how it was intended (or at least interpreted), comparing the number of times it meant young woman versus virgin. There were also views from several folks that sounded to me like they had backgrounds that made their opinions matter. If memory serves, it was pretty much a toss up, though it might have favored the young woman side slightly. I'll try to find it again and post a link. I do know that when I finished, my impression was that it was too close to call. Not a strong enough argument to battle the fundies with anyway

One of my more favorite sections, I keep forgetting where it was... One of the synoptics, Jesus approaches a fig tree (which is remarked by the "author" to specifically be out of season) and condemns it to wither because it was bearing no fruit.

I don't know if they still exist or not, but there use to be a group that called themselves "The Way" or "The Way Ministries". This was back in the early 80's. I went to one of their intro meetings out of curiosity. I considered myself quite the good Christian at the time, and wanted to check out what I had heard was a cult movement. Anyway, they mentioned that passage (Matt. 21.19). Their "leader" explained that there should have been some kind of insect or something on the tree, and that that was what Jesus was miffed about. I don't know. Seemed silly to me also

After all, shouldn't God, who knows the number of hairs on our heads, know if there was anything on that tree or not?

Here's a link that discusses the problem with the virgin/young woman. Dispite the source, it seems to present a fair discussion of the issue.

http://jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/9_1/almah

And for a more slanted view -

http://www.lightofmashiach.org/almah.html

And if your really board, here's a several pages long discussion on the topic

http://www.heartofisrael.net/chazak/articles/almahintro.html

 

[ReligionStudent]

I was really looking to verify something I had heard either here, or in conversation elsewhere. It was suggested that there were differences in "most" (not my usage) Christian bibles in regards to what was said about the Messiah.

I've read through both the Hertz Commentary, and "Commentary on the Torah" by Richard E. Friedman a few times each, but didn't have anything that went beyond the first five books. I've been informed that Isaiah and Ezekiel were supposed to have some messianic prophecy in them but I've never read them myself.

Were there any other books/sections to look in regarding messianic prophecy?

Nothing in the OT is really about a messiah like Jesus. In the OT Messiah reffers to an anointed and divinely selected king, usually of the Davidic line.

Isaiah (actually three books combined into one), is looking for such a temporal ruler, who would return Israel or Judah to a kingdom. It even names a non-Yahwist as messiah, calling Cyrus the king of Persia the messiah. Likely this was political manuevering by those who hoped Cyrus would help free them from Babylonian rule, and wanted his fellows to follow Cyrus.

Ezekiel looks for similarly temporal return, not an end times resurrection or messianic reconstruction of the world

I would suggest Paul D. Hanson's Dawn of the Apocalyptic

 

[Beerina]

I beta-tested it. Character creation was a joke, you had to make your character from scratch - and by that I mean from dirt. You had to play a male, too, unless you could put up with being made from a rib and being made love to in the missionary position. Dunno, my female character protested that and got deleted by the GM. Maybe they didn't include that in the final release. Whatever.

I made a new character and I chose "Farmer" as my class. What a joke! One of the other beta-testers made some kind of hunter or shepherd or something, and the GM was all over him and his ideas. Screw that. I killed his character, and they "exiled" my character, since they didn't want to keep deleting a beta tester's characters, as I was doing them a favor. So, they were kind of in a bind. They couldn't kill my character, and they didn't want this whole player vs. player thing to go on. They marked me, exiled me, and up gave me my own city to run. That was cool.

I stopped playing when it got to the begats. BORING! Now, though, my friend is telling me he's got this character named "Samson" and he's a badass. I'm sure the GM's will nerf him in the next patch.

You know the game designers are getting lazy when the best weapon in the game is the mandible of a jackass.

Nominated.

By the way, I talked to your buddy in a chat room. They did nerf him, but he says he has a hack he can use to restore his superstrength. He thinks he'll only be able to use it once though before it's detected and he'll be banned, so he's waiting for just the right time.


Meh, I'm playing the giant class. I gots me my armor, my big shield and huge honkin' sword. I'm gonna go to the newbieville and pwn some n00bs 2nite. They'll /petition the GM, of course, but the GMs never do anything about it because, hey, it's all allowed within the game mechanics.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

Nominated.

By the way, I talked to your buddy in a chat room. They did nerf him, but he says he has a hack he can use to restore his superstrength. He thinks he'll only be able to use it once though before it's detected and he'll be banned, so he's waiting for just the right time.


Meh, I'm playing the giant class. I gots me my armor, my big shield and huge honkin' sword. I'm gonna go to the newbieville and pwn some n00bs 2nite. They'll /petition the GM, of course, but the GMs never do anything about it because, hey, it's all allowed within the game mechanics.

Giant? I wouldn't play that class if you paid me. Do any of them get to join the Isrealite faction? No. Of course not. We all know that the Israelites get everything cool. The giants look cool, on paper. They have high damage-per-second and good hit points, but they have no ranged defense. I'm telling you man, a kid with a rock can take out a giant.

 

[ReligionStudent]

I was really looking to verify something I had heard either here, or in conversation elsewhere. It was suggested that there were differences in "most" (not my usage) Christian bibles in regards to what was said about the Messiah.

I've read through both the Hertz Commentary, and "Commentary on the Torah" by Richard E. Friedman a few times each, but didn't have anything that went beyond the first five books. I've been informed that Isaiah and Ezekiel were supposed to have some messianic prophecy in them but I've never read them myself.

Were there any other books/sections to look in regarding messianic prophecy?

Giant? I wouldn't play that class if you paid me. Do any of them get to join the Isrealite faction? No. Of course not. We all know that the Israelites get everything cool. The giants look cool, on paper. They have high damage-per-second and good hit points, but they have no ranged defense. I'm telling you man, a kid with a rock can take out a giant.

That only happened once and it was a bard. No one plays bards.