Obama's Katrina!

[DDWW]

Fix the problem, not the blame!

What President Obama needs right now is to look for someone who can fix the problems. Someone with actual executive experience. Someone who has experience in dealing with oil companies. Someone, maybe even an ex governor of a large oil state.

Any names come to mind?

DDWW

 

[johnny karate]

Nor do I think tasking the Coast Guard as the primary force to reply to 9/11 or Pearl Harbor would have been a rational Presidential decision.

What a bizarre non sequitur.

 

[johnny karate]

Boom placement and tending same, berm building, etc, are the kinds of activities I suggest need full military coordination.

Why?

 

[dudalb]

And the GOP, which is widely seen as being in bed with the Oil Companies, is going to have a tough time exploiting this.

 

[Drysdale]

What more control would you like the government to take, Drysdale?

The burnoff should have been initiated when the option was still there first off. But since it was'nt and we are dealing with the problem as is a few things off the top of my head.

Give the Gulf states whatever resources they need to protect their coast.
If we can send 400 million dollars to Palestine which I read this morning surely we can help those states most affected.

Call in the Army corps of engineers and tell BP they had their shot let try something different.

Call in other experts from other oil companies and bill BP.

Basically, quit depending on BP who looks like they dont have a clue.

 

[AlBell]

Nor do I think tasking the Coast Guard as the primary force to reply to 9/11 or Pearl Harbor would have been a rational Presidential decision.

What a bizarre non sequitur.

Perhaps.

I hope I'm wrong. Give it, say, 18 months and we'll see.

 

[thaiboxerken]

They did controlled burns of oil, but with that much oil, it didn't do much.
You want our government to spend more? What would those states do with the money? Use the cash to soak up the oil?
I doubt that the army corp or other oil companies could do any better than BP. This is because previous administrations were lied to by the oil companies that they would drill safely and that they had adequate response procedures for this kind of accident.

The fact is, there are no adequate response procedures or methods for this kind of accident. Only relief wells will stop this, and we can only hope they actually hit it the first time.

While Obama deserves some criticism, this notion that he can wave a magic wand to make the spill stop is just silly.

 

[joobz]

Obama does'nt need help looking bad. I think he's doing that quite well on his own.

your opinion is noted.

But to the post. Who has argued it's solely the company's responsibility other than the dems? When it starts affecting wildlife, beaches, nature, people's lives in general it is the govt's responsibility to step in is it not?

And government is stepping in. But given the problem is a highly specific one, do you really believe it is the US or the oil companies responsibility to have contingency management in place to handle catastrophes? Would you support the added tax cost associated with such extra resources spent?

If a Boy Scout unit starts a forest fire is it solely their responsibility to extinguish it or do they call in fireman,forest rangers etc?

Of course the fire response squad should come in to take care of it. Fires are quite common and can be caused by a variety of sources. It makes sense for the government to be prepared for rapid response in such settings. Similarly, our police system should be in place to determine if it was an "honest" mistake or if criminal actions were responsible.

In the case of the deep oil leakage, there is no precedent on how to handle such a situation. the government clearly had not prepared resources for the eventuality. Indeed, the regulatory body responsible for ensuring safety was in place was too closely connected with the oil industry. In other words, the lack of government capability is a direct result of private industry regulating private industry.

And it is clear a criminal investigation will be made. Do you disagree with this action?

When it affects the multiple states and many lives be it human or nonhumans it becomes the govt's problem does'nt it?

Of course, but by which means do you expect action to be made that hasn't?

Which republicans,libertarians or independents, have said we need no govt we need anarchy? Please point them out.

Don't strawman my argument. That's simple nonsense. Republicans speak toward "limited" government, lower taxes and less regulation, but then expect the government to make huge actions when called upon.

Please explain how this is possible to have both? My point is that we are currently reaping the benefits of a poorly regulated private industry.

It's past time for the federal govt to step in and take control. Now if they want to hold BP accountable for the expenses that's between them and BP. But it needs to be resolved.

I agree it needs to be resolved, but I would like to know how. It seems that we are making headway. Certainly it is frustrating that it has taken so long, but again that is BP's fault for not properly having contingency plans in place.

 

[leftysergeant]

Perhaps.

I hope I'm wrong. Give it, say, 18 months and we'll see.

You have no idea what the functions of the various Armed Forces are, have you?

NOBODY but the Coast Guard, of all the forces, has any expertise in this area.

And the oil-worshipping kakiocrats who allowed this disastrer to happen took utterly NO steps to ensure that the CG had the equipment they would need for this operation, even after the Valdez catastrophe. If anything, the situation was made worse than any accident because the departed elected officials left the MMS and parts of the DoD blighted with their appointees, some of the most corrupt, useless, laughable and under-educated sack of bones ever to screw up a government.

The only thing for which I fault Obama is for not throwing Ptomaine Tony in jail the day he told the EPA to buzz off and went back to applying Corexit to the spill.

Given the broken mechanisms that the Shrub left for him, Obama is doing about as well as anyone can reasonably expect. A lot better than the jerks that the Shrub put in charge of FEMA, for sure.

Our military people are over-deployed now and the equipment all needs servicing. Deploying a lot of clueless grunts is not a magic solution to the problem. Better to just hire a bunch of former fisheries and tourist industry people, give them proper gear like respirators, shoot any Big Pollution thug who tells them not to wear the gear and use him for an oil mop, and then charge it to Ptomaine Tony's bank account.

 

[BeAChooser]

They did controlled burns of oil, but with that much oil, it didn't do much.

Not according to the following sources which say the burning (the little there was) was quite successful:

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/coast-guard-starts-burning-gulf-oil-slick/19457530

The Coast Guard began burning a portion of the spill Wednesday [April 28] in an attempt to stop it from reaching sensitive environmental areas and the Louisiana shoreline. The slick was about 16 miles from Venice, La.

The test burn began about 5 p.m. CDT and [Coast Guard Rear Adm. Mary] Landry said it was successful.

… snip …

[Charlie] Henry [an environmental scientist with NOAA] said a controlled burn of the spill could burn up to 99 percent of oil in selected areas, while producing a "black plume" of smoke that would not be visible from shore. He said a burn is an effective method that has been used to control previous oil spills in marshy areas of south Louisiana, though never offshore.

http://theweek.com/article/index/202425/the-gulf-oil-spill-is-burning-it-the-answer

April 29, 2010

"There are huge net environmental benefits" to burning the oil, says environmental engineer David F. Dickins, as quoted in The New York Times' Dot Earth blog, "compared to letting it stay on the surface or hit the coast." If conditions are right, fire can eliminate up to 90 percent of the oil — "no other technique is going to take that much oil out of the environment."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-04-28-oil-cleanup-gulf_N.htm

5/4/2010

… snip …

Crews late Wednesday afternoon started a test burn on the spill, which has grown to about 600 miles in circumference. Landry noted the test was successful, however no burns were being done at night, and it was unclear when more fires would be lit.

So despite the successful first test, they waited and didn't start burning oil in large quantities. Instead they decided to do another small test.

http://www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com/go/doc/2931/539675/

Controlled Burn Approved for May 5

… snip …

A successful controlled burn, lasting 28 minutes and removing thousands of gallons of oil, was conducted on April 28th.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/08/gulf.oil.spill/index.html

Suttles said 17,500 barrels (735,000 gallons) of oil-water mix were collected Friday, and crews conducted five successful controlled burns.

In fact, controlled burns have been quite successful. Here:

http://whitehouse.blogs.foxnews.com...d-of-schedule-noaa-closes-more-fishing-areas/

May 31, 2010

… snip …

In total, more than 100 burns have been conducted to remove a total of 2.8 million gallons of oil from the water to date.

The problem is that they didn't do enough burning. Sure, bad weather was a factor at times, but lack of resources committed to doing it was an even bigger problem. In particular, the shortage of fire resistant oil booms to contain the oil for burning is clearly the problem.


http://blog.al.com/live/2010/05/fire_boom_oil_spill_raines.html

If U.S. officials had followed up on a 1994 response plan for a major Gulf oil spill, it is possible that the spill could have been kept under control and far from land.

The problem: The federal government did not have a single fire boom on hand.

The "In-Situ Burn" plan produced by federal agencies in 1994 calls for responding to a major oil spill in the Gulf with the immediate use of fire booms.

But in order to conduct a successful test burn eight days after the Deepwater Horizon well began releasing massive amounts of oil into the Gulf, officials had to purchase one from a company in Illinois.

When federal officials called, Elastec/American Marine, shipped the only boom it had in stock, Jeff Bohleber, chief financial officer for Elastec, said today.

At federal officials' behest, the company began calling customers in other countries and asking if the U.S. government could borrow their fire booms for a few days, he said.

A single fire boom being towed by two boats can burn up to 1,800 barrels of oil an hour, Bohleber said. That translates to 75,000 gallons an hour, raising the possibility that the spill could have been contained at the accident scene 100 miles from shore.

"They said this was the tool of last resort. No, this is absolutely the asset of first use. Get in there and start burning oil before the spill gets out of hand," Bohleber said. "If they had six or seven of these systems in place when this happened and got out there and started burning, it would have significantly lessened the amount of oil that got loose."

In the days after the rig sank, U.S Coast Guard Rear Admiral Mary Landry said the government had all the assets it needed. She did not discuss why officials waited more than a week to conduct a test burn.

At the time, former National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration oil spill response coordinator Ron Gouguet -- who helped craft the 1994 plan -- told the Press-Register that officials had pre-approval for burning. "The whole reason the plan was created was so we could pull the trigger right away."

Gouguet speculated that burning could have captured 95 percent of the oil as it spilled from the well.

This is because previous administrations were lied to by the oil companies that they would drill safely and that they had adequate response procedures for this kind of accident.

The above sources prove this statement to also be dishonest. It wasn't the Obama administration's job to believe BP's promises. It was their job to see to it that BP did an environmental impact statement, had an adequate emergency response plan, had any required emergency response resources on hand before drilling, performed all required testing on equipment and met required standards on the materials used. Not just accept campaign contributions and then waive all of the above, as they did.

The fact is, there are no adequate response procedures or methods for this kind of accident.

And this statement is proven false by the above sources as well. It almost seems as if you are trying to deceive the members of this forum, thaiboxerken.

Sorry, no matter how you attempt to spin this, this is clearly Obama's Katrina … especially since the Obama Administration waived the environmental impact study that BP was supposed to have been done on this well, waived the development of an BP emergency response plan should a blowout occur (a plan which would undoubtedly have required that more booms be available), waived BP tests of the emergency shutoff system, allowed BP to use lower quality steel, and then waited and waited before adequately responding. In fact, have they responded adequately yet? Or is Obama off on another vacation?

 

[applecorped]

Told you it was Bush's fault.

 

[leftysergeant]

If you break something, it is not the fault of the party to whom you pass it on.

Of course it is the Shrub's fault.

 

[joobz]

The problem is that they didn't do enough burning. Sure, bad weather was a factor at times, but lack of resources committed to doing it was an even bigger problem. In particular, the shortage of fire resistant oil booms to contain the oil for burning is clearly the problem.

So you think they should have done more burning even though they didn't have enough oil booms to secure them all?
Or are you claiming that it was there fault for not predicting the severity of the spill and therefore didn't have enough oil booms in reserve to handle the disaster?

The above sources prove this statement to also be dishonest.

No, the above sources prove that they didn't risk a fire when it wouldn't be safe. That they did what could be done safely.

It wasn't the Obama administration's job to believe BP's promises. It was their job to see to it that BP did an environmental impact statement, had an adequate emergency response plan, had any required emergency response resources on hand before drilling, performed all required testing on equipment and met required standards on the materials used. Not just accept campaign contributions and then waive all of the above, as they did.

I didn't realize it was Obama's campaign slogan to "Drill baby Drill!"

And this statement is proven false by the above sources as well. It almost seems as if you are trying to deceive the members of this forum, thaiboxerken.

If by deceive, you mean accurately state reality, than yes. Thaiboxerken is being highly deceptive.

Sorry, no matter how you attempt to spin this, this is clearly Obama's Katrina … especially since the Obama Administration waived the environmental impact study that BP was supposed to have been done on this well, waived the development of an BP emergency response plan should a blowout occur (a plan which would undoubtedly have required that more booms be available), waived BP tests of the emergency shutoff system, allowed BP to use lower quality steel, and then waited and waited before adequately responding.

I'm confused. I thought you supported private industry to determine what's best. That should mean that you would support industry self-regulation, which is what MMS had developed into. Are you advocating actual government regulation?

 

[leftysergeant]

What President Obama needs right now is to look for someone who can fix the problems. Someone with actual executive experience. Someone who has experience in dealing with oil companies. Someone, maybe even an ex governor of a large oil state.

Any names come to mind?

Sounds like you're saying that we should all wish we still had the Shrub to take care of it. The only use I can see for him or any of his herd of swine is to drag them through the oil slick to mop it up. He caused it. The drilling started on his watch and he put the worst possible people in place to watch out for our interests. Than GOD he is out of there and cannot make it any worse.

 

[applecorped]

of course.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Told you it was Bush's fault.

Predicting a response that is totallly reasonable doesn't make that response any less reasonable. There is fault in the last adminstration in regards to the oil spill, and arguably more fault than the current administration. I will admit that Obama could've done some things better. However, can you admit that the last administration dropped the ball by deregulating the oil industry?

 

[rwguinn]

In the meantime, something Lefty Sergeant can applaud the Obama Administration for--they are moving toward his point of view...

"Look what you made us do, BP!"

 

[MattusMaximus]

I don't.

Nor do I think tasking the Coast Guard as the primary force to reply to 9/11 or Pearl Harbor would have been a rational Presidential decision.

Yeah, because having a military and/or civilian target attacked with bombers (military or suicide, or both) is totally the same thing as dealing with a leaky oil well 5000 feet below sea level and the associated spill. Get the Navy out there to shoot at the busted BOP and oil spill - that's sure to fix everything!

"Take that, ya damn commie oil spill - BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! Yeah, eat lead suckers!!! USA! USA! USA!"

AlBell, we should just put you in charge. You seem to have a very firm grasp of the situation... in your own mind

 

[commandlinegamer]

Please tell me this is a joke:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-...ocking-bp-memo-and-the-oil-spill-in-the-gulf/

 

[AlBell]

Yeah, because having a military and/or civilian target attacked with bombers (military or suicide, or both) is totally the same thing as dealing with a leaky oil well 5000 feet below sea level and the associated spill. Get the Navy out there to shoot at the busted BOP and oil spill - that's sure to fix everything!

"Take that, ya damn commie oil spill - BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! Yeah, eat lead suckers!!! USA! USA! USA!"

AlBell, we should just put you in charge. You seem to have a very firm grasp of the situation... in your own mind

Do you misinterpret everything you read as badly as you misinterpret what I said?