Obama Win Now Inevitable?

I know this is directed towards TAM but...

Elind said:
I don't know what you have seen, but I saw Obama's face, and heard his quavering voice, trying to distance himself from 20 years of Presidential aspiration competence claims.

He sounded like a schoolboy caught associated with school vandals and explaining how he wasn't really involved.
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That may be what you think but you're wrong.

This is the man you defend for candidacy of the Presidency of the United States of America????
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I tend not to make a decision on that until the final two candidates are chosen but I am leaning towards Obama at the moment.


For 20 years this insightful, intelligent prospective leader of the of the only Super Power on this planet hadn't figured out that his spiritual adviser (whatever the hell that means) was a raving racist living in the past and wanting to foment the same hatreds that so many decent Americans thought they had moved past; and proved it by voting for the little man and his angry wife???
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Yes, even intelligent, good, honest people can make mistakes.

I listened with disgust at the venom coming from that little man of some god, and I have NEVER encountered that in my personal experience which does not include any insulated "white" sanctuaries, in case you are tempted to offer a quip.
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I've listened in disgust to a lot of things actual politicians themselves have said... what's your point?


 
TriskettheKid said:
First off, please ditch the arrogance. It gets in the way of your argument.
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It is not arrogance. It is impatience with people who can't hold a discussion on a topic, like you.

And yes, what does it matter? Can you show that Obama actually agrees with everything his pastor said? Can you conclusively show that Obama is a believer in the woo?
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You clearly don't pay attention when something obscures your preconceptions. It is not a matter of proving what he agrees with, it is a matter of ignoring what he (hopefully) doesn't agree with for 20 years. That is not presidential material.



If you can't, then I'm thinking you're being awfully quick to judge.
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Not half as quick as you are to judge by closing your brain.



Are you always so quick to jump to conclusions?
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Give me a reason to not make a conclusion. You sound like a professional apologist.

That doesn't seem like something an alleged skeptic would do. You do know which forums you're posting on, correct?
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Don't try the smartass quip. It's tiresome.


Based on what?

Maybe you didn't understand, so I'll post the question again:


What has Obama done, or said, or written, that has shown that his pastor is going to have undue influence on Obama or his Presidency?
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You already asked that, as you said, yet you ignore the entire response. That is not the question. The question is a matter of judgment. Clearly he has little awareness of what surrounds him, and that is a kind evaluation.
 
Wow, Elind. Wow.

Thank you. You've really opened my eyes. I had no idea that the ignore function was so useful until I met you.
 
Tsukasa Buddha said:
There is this thing we call a definition, and I don't think that saying those things count as being a "raving racist" under the definition. I think you are goin to need to give me complete quotes, because I don't recall reading those things.
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You should watch more TV, or at least go to Utube. The little turd was obscene and I saw him. Try to be a better educated apologist.

I believe he called the atom bombings terrorism, which I don't think raving or racist. And for the drug thing, while his rhetoric was high, it is a fair criticism to say that the formulation of drug laws had a racist streak. I would be interested to see what his whole positions are, rather than a one sentence quotes given in speeches.

As for him saying "God Damn America", I think he does have a point. America's history has hardly been as grand as the statement "God Bless America" would lead one to believe. He just said it in a very over the top way, which I won't hold against him.

And even if he did have really weird ideas, sometimes you overlook them because of other things. Obama liked what the church did in ministering and outreach. He was Obama's spiritual advisor, not historical or political. You can be great in one area and a complete loon in another. In fact, Obama did compare him to an old uncle, he likes him for other things than these more controversial statements.
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JC!! you are the apologist supreme, and yet you pretend to be a skeptic on a skeptic forum. If this was your sorry ass uncle I would be nicer, but this is a man who wants to represent all of us to the planet, and this is the best judge of character he can present? I would have been kinder had he been number 9. (don't watch TV? Try google)
 
Elind said:
You should watch more TV, or at least go to Utube. The little turd was obscene and I saw him. Try to be a better educated apologist.
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Wow, ad hominem and failing to provide evidence. This conversation will end well :rolleyes: .

JC!! you are the apologist supreme, and yet you pretend to be a skeptic on a skeptic forum. If this was your sorry ass uncle I would be nicer, but this is a man who wants to represent all of us to the planet, and this is the best judge of character he can present? I would have been kinder had he been number 9. (don't watch TV? Try google)
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Wow, even more. Way to not address anything at all.
 
Tsukasa Buddha said:
SHOCKING VIDEOS From Obama's Church!!!

Just listen to that hate speech!
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What does that have to do with the obvious hate speeches that I saw?

Are you one of those who, for example, think that hate one day is canceled out by someone else saying that it didn't happen on another day?

Do you think that he was high on drugs, had been beaten by his wife, or something similar when he said that aids and drug addition was manufactured by rich white people to keep the ******* in line? (Yes, he said that bleeped word).
 
Elind said:
What does that have to do with the obvious hate speeches that I saw?

Are you one of those who, for example, think that hate one day is canceled out by someone else saying that it didn't happen on another day?

Do you think that he was high on drugs, had been beaten by his wife, or something similar when he said that aids and drug addition was manufactured by rich white people to keep the ******* in line? (Yes, he said that bleeped word).
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Again, what hate speech? You still haven't given complete quotes or anything.

And what the church does matters because that's why Obama went there. Yes, I think that if the church does ministry and outreach programs to change the community, the pastor is allowed to make inflamed rhetoric a few times.
 
Elind said:
The evidence is there, yet you call it ad hominem when you refuse to look at it. What kind of logic do you call that?
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Funny, all I saw was you calling me uneducated and and "apologist" and telling me to watch TV or "Utube" :rolleyes: .
 
Tsukasa Buddha said:
Funny, all I saw was you calling me uneducated and and "apologist" and telling me to watch TV or "Utube" :rolleyes: .
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Actually, I believe he called me an apologist. If he called you one, then I am no longer aware of it, since he has me on ignore.

Oh, and since he was flexing those large skeptical muscles of his, he also told me that I shouldn't vote. And that I was quick to judge because I had closed my brain.

Tactics I've only seen from Twoofers, I'd like to point out.
 
Tsukasa Buddha said:
SHOCKING VIDEOS From Obama's Church!!!

Just listen to that hate speech!
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Good videos TB. I followed some links and here is another good one:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/15/203242/685/352/477632
Unity the Great Need of the Hour, Obama Nonors MLK

That one is long, about a half hour.

Still concerned about Wright's speech, and will probably be thinking some more about what the ramifications are of Obama going to his church for 20 years --- but it was good to hear the other ones also.
 
Elind said:
I don't know what you have seen, but I saw Obama's face, and heard his quavering voice, trying to distance himself from 20 years of Presidential aspiration competence claims.

He sounded like a schoolboy caught associated with school vandals and explaining how he wasn't really involved.

This is the man you defend for candidacy of the Presidency of the United States of America????

For 20 years this insightful, intelligent prospective leader of the of the only Super Power on this planet hadn't figured out that his spiritual adviser (whatever the hell that means) was a raving racist living in the past and wanting to foment the same hatreds that so many decent Americans thought they had moved past; and proved it by voting for the little man and his angry wife???

I listened with disgust at the venom coming from that little man of some god, and I have NEVER encountered that in my personal experience which does not include any insulated "white" sanctuaries, in case you are tempted to offer a quip.
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Against the other two candidates, a disingenuous matronizing school marm and a bumbling war vet (and yes he is a hero, so don't go there), he can hold his own and then some.

quavering? you must be listening to a different person. If anything, Obama is in more control of his emotions then the other two.

I am an outsider, so in the end, the matter is peripheral to me. My interest is only in who the rest of the world has to deal with next...I do not want it to be Billary or 4 more years of Bush.

Obama, I have no doubt has accomplished more than YOU or I have, or likely ever will accomplish. To call him little reveals your emotion, your bitterness. Similarly, my labeling of Billary and McCain above, can clearly show my dislike for them...so be it.

I am not arguing on your like or dislike, as that is raw, emotional, personal, and may or may not be logical. I am arguing on the lack of merit in condemning the man for what his preacher has said.

SHould we do the same with John McCain and Bill Cunningham, or John Haggee, or others I am sure we could dig up? SHould we do the same with Billary and Ferraro?

Like those cases, it makes the news, it is a negative, and in all cases the campaigns have done the proper thing and denounced it.

I guess if Obama wins in November you are going to be pretty upset.

TAM:)
 
Tsukasa Buddha said:
And for the drug thing, while his rhetoric was high, it is a fair criticism to say that the formulation of drug laws had a racist streak. I would be interested to see what his whole positions are, rather than a one sentence quotes given in speeches.
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Selective reading?

He said the government is the one bringing in the drugs for the purpose of locking up blacks.

Will Obama stop the CIA from selling drugs?
 
JEROME DA GNOME said:
Here are the words coming from his own mouth at the pulpit.

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I actually liked that one. Sure, the beginning was bizarre, but if you listen to the end he says Jesus taught that you shouldn't give into hatred and bigotry, and that you should love your enemies, etc. I don't think it makes him a raving racist to say that black people have had a raw deal in our society. Personally, I would prefer to hear the whole sermon, to know what the main message was.

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And that one was just a bunch of one sentence liners strung together. It didn't give the context at all. The only "raving racist" thing I heard in there was the part about the gov. giving people drugs, which I don't get. But again, I have no idea what he said before or after that, so I don't know what he meant.

OMG, two weird sentences out of all the sermons he gave in 20 years. Yes, this guy is clearly a hate-filled bigot.

ETA: And I noticed white people standing and cheering too. Clearly they were too dumb to realize he was actually being a hateful bigot.
 
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