Merged Now What?

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Ambrosia said:
No.

If I knew then what I know now, I'd still have voted to leave.

I'm not happy at all at the lack of planning by the Leave camp, and some of the promises of the Leave campaign (£350m/week for NHS, quick reduction in immigration) never passed the smell test in the first place and didn't sway my vote anyway. No doubt McHrozni will be along shortly to call me a Brexitard.
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Were you one of the mindless band of lunatics* who thought the economy would be better?


*link
 
asydhouse said:
Gee thanks. I happen to think anyone who just rolls over and accepts this result, given the reasons I said above, is an idiot. You are complacent, and wrong.

The referendum is not an example of healthy democracy, and it should be called out as such.
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Ignoring it in favour of a different poll doesn't sound very democratic, either. Should they hold referendums until they get the result you agree with?

Agatha said:
I agree that the Brexiters had no real plan in place
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Of course they didn't. That's because their mandate was just to poll the population. Now it's time to make a plan.

asydhouse said:
Yeah, Cameron could step up to the plate and say "I'm sorry I screwed our nation for selfish party political manoeuvring, and in recognition of the fact that I have made a colossal mistake, set up the referendum in a half-baked, faulty fashion, and the result is not a legally binding document, I am making the decision to scrap the bad advice of the Brexit campaign, and therefore the referendum is invalid, and we are remaining in the EU."

His career is finished, but he might get some speaking engagements on the back of doing the right thing as he exits the political stage.

I doubt he'll have the balls to do it, though.
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Why would it be good or ballsy to ignore the result of a popular referendum? "Oops, we didn't expect that result so we'll ignore it"?
 
The Don said:
The parliament and council have the powers of amendment and veto so it's not simply a matter of blocking.
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They still cannot propose legislation. This is something that I consider to be a major problem, especially if the end goal is a single European state, to say nothing about the cultural and immigration issues.

You make it sound rather more easy than it really is. The process for becoming a German citizen was detailed in another thread, it's hardly a rubber stamp.
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Irrelevant to my point: the UK shouldn't have to accept migrants because they were accepted in another country with a different culture and economy.

McHrozni said:
I want an honest engagement, of course. I find it's best to call a spade a spade.
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In other words, people who disagree with you are idiots.
 
Lothian said:
Were you one of the mindless band of lunatics* who thought the economy would be better?
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I do think the economy will be better as a result. I'm not sure I'd describe it as some kind of glorious utopia.

I also think the economy is going to get a good deal worse for a short while (2-3 years) before it starts to get better, but that long term (10-20years+) we're much better off out of the EU.

Just for completion:
I am for European Union, but very much against the EU as it is today. I want to see a slimmed down, less bureaucratic, EEC kind of union.

If the above makes me a mindless lunatic in your opinion, then so be it.
 
Craig B said:
In this case it's an artificial distinction. It'll be political only insofar as it remains in the parliamentary domain. It may not. It will engage the courts, the EU parliament, and if the referendum result is set aside, it will engage the streets. The consideration in people's minds will be the constitutional question; a referendum has been held, precisely because the issue is deemed to be constitutional. A vote in a referendum is generally accepted by the government, on the basis, right or wrong, of the primacy of direct democracy. Now the governing institutions will ignore this at their peril.

They have not ignored previous referendum results. They must not ignore this one, or they will seem to have set aside the very principles upon which their own right to govern is founded.
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Yes
 
Ambrosia said:
I do think the economy will be better as a result. I'm not sure I'd describe it as some kind of glorious utopia.

I also think the economy is going to get a good deal worse for a short while (2-3 years) before it starts to get better, but that long term (10-20years+) we're much better off out of the EU.

Just for completion:
I am for European Union, but very much against the EU as it is today. I want to see a slimmed down, less bureaucratic, EEC kind of union.

If the above makes me a mindless lunatic in your opinion, then so be it.
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It was Ken Clarke who used the term mindless lunatic, I hadn't expressed on opinion. However I would be happy to comment if you explain how you see the economy turning round in 2-3 years. What will the deal with the EU be like and what other changes do you envisage?
 
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MikeG said:
Red herring, as of course I have done none of the above. But I'm glad that you agree that just plucking figures out of the air, unsupported, isn't a great way to conduct a meaningful conversation.

Please feel free to ask for verification of any figures I have given. I mean, if I had said that UK GDP would be X% bigger or smaller than currently, you might justifiably ask me where I got the figure. Ditto if I had said that the City of London were to expand or contract by Y%. OK?
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Leave was all about magical numbers, that was the point.
 
Argumemnon said:
Of course they didn't. That's because their mandate was just to poll the population.
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It was? I could have sworn that "polling the people" (i.e organizing the referendum) was the job of election officials, while the Brexit camp saw their job as misinforming the people into voting 'leave'.


Argumemnon said:
Now it's time to make a plan.
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Bit late. The economy is breaking.






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Argumemnon said:
In other words, people who disagree with you are idiots.
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Sometimes they are. It is not always a "fair and balanced" world with a correct two-sided-on-equal-footing-opinion.

There is no post brexit economic plan making sense presented by the brexiter. All economist and financial analyst (you remember those "egghead" people don't seem to like , heck even in this thread) point to one direction : UK will not be better off. And yet people ignore both of those and gladly tell it was a good decision or whatnot.

I am sorry but this is like climate change denial : when for all practical purpose a wide range of expert tells you it will get warmer for UK, but some people pulls out a "no it will be getting colder - I voted for winter" out of their nether region welll...... No. Sorry. not fairt and balanced.

It is not being about agreeing or disagreeing. it is that one side has a crushing amount of analysis on a wide slate of expert, while brexiter have nearly(*) none.

(*) I know of no institute or expert groups which analyzis state UK will be better but feel free to fish for one.
 
Hlafordlaes said:
Leave was all about magical numbers, that was the point.
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Talking of magical numbers, do you support the claim which I was responding to that 75% of the country's financial services business will be lost, amounting to 15% of GDP? These were specific claims, made more than once by a poster in this thread. His only support for them..........another post of his.
 
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Aepervius said:
Sometimes they are. It is not always a "fair and balanced" world with a correct two-sided-on-equal-footing-opinion.

There is no post brexit economic plan making sense presented by the brexiter. All economist and financial analyst (you remember those "egghead" people don't seem to like , heck even in this thread) point to one direction : UK will not be better off. And yet people ignore both of those and gladly tell it was a good decision or whatnot.

I am sorry but this is like climate change denial : when for all practical purpose a wide range of expert tells you it will get warmer for UK, but some people pulls out a "no it will be getting colder - I voted for winter" out of their nether region welll...... No. Sorry. not fairt and balanced.

It is not being about agreeing or disagreeing. it is that one side has a crushing amount of analysis on a wide slate of expert, while brexiter have nearly(*) none.

(*) I know of no institute or expert groups which analyzis state UK will be better but feel free to fish for one.
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You do know that things aren't always judged purely on economics, don't you?
 
MikeG said:
You do know that things aren't always judged purely on economics, don't you?
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Economics, immigrants and some vague nationalistic concept of sovreignity. What other issues were there?
 
uke2se said:
Economics, immigrants and some vague nationalistic concept of sovreignity. What other issues were there?
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Thanks, you made my point, even with a very incomplete list. It isn't all economics.
 
MikeG said:
Do you want honest engagement here, or are you just here to abuse your opponents? Do you know what I'd love to watch? You standing in front of Lord David Owen, and telling him he is a retard.

You may be the only person in this and other threads on the matter of Brexit who debases the argument with terms such as Brexitard. You haven't seen any Leavers or neutrals use such terms. Could you consider raising the tone a little, for the sake of everyone here?
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He won't, as I know from many run-ins with him in many discussions about a Greek crisis or three. He loves to post barbs, to the extent that I decided to save 'screen real-estate', as some call it.
 
GlennB said:
He won't, as I know from many run-ins with him in many discussions about a Greek crisis or three. He loves to post barbs, to the extent that I decided to save 'screen real-estate', as some call it.
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Thanks.
 
McHrozni said:
That's clearly an exaggaration. Obviously UK will not lose all of it's financial services.

Realistically it stands to lose about 3/4, or 15% of the economy, with London becoming the new Dublin. That's about as bad as Ukraine last year. Meditate on that for a minute, if you will.
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I don't really think you know how much of the "UK Economy" is financial services, nor what that includes, let alone how much of it will be "lost" do you?

For some reason that did not seem to stop you coming up with a scary big number that suits your purposes.

Funny.
 
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