Merged Now What?

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Rat said:
Indeed, and was set up more or less at our instigation and largely by UK people.
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Few people remember the Treaty of London.

Curiously it was one Sir Winston Churchill who started the whole business with his call for a "kind of United States of Europe".
Strange how few Conservatives want to remember that. :rolleyes:
 
Ambrosia said:
Please try and break your posts into paragraphs, it makes them much easier to follow.

We can control immigration and not pay monies to the EU by outright leaving the EU and not caring about the "common market" or negotiating a Norway type of EEA deal.

Whether that's the best course of action or not, requires investigation and people to do some sums. For example, when Obama visited the UK he cautioned against leaving the EU and said it might put the UK 'to the back of the queue' for trade deals. Now it looks as though the EU US trade deal has hit the rocks somewhat as if the UK isn't part of the EU anymore that throws a spanner into the works. So the reverse might turn out to be true.

[link]

So, if, the UK were to quit the EU entirely and leave the common market, but then shortly thereafter strike a trade deal with the US, then we've closed one door but opened a different one. Which door is more profitable?

If we do leave the EU common market, then there still remains possibilities to strike OK deals with the EU. The UK has a large trade deficit with the EU, and while collectively they might not notice a few % loss in their economy, individual countries might well be hit quite hard, and those countries could lobby the EU to get it an acceptable deal. If we leave the common market we'll lose zero tariffs, but we could still get 'pretty low tariffs' especially if we come to a compromise on migration. We could get "lowish" tariffs, in exchange for "freeish" movement of people perhaps.

There's a world of opportunities out there and we don't have to tie up our economy with that of our closer geographical neighbours to access them. Just because we've done that for the past 40odd years, doesn't mean we should continue to do so.
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The answer to your profitabilatity question is dependent on numerous factors including in no specific order;

1. The cost of trade tariffs
2. The costs of logistics and distribution
3. The availability of an actual sizeable market for the goods offered
4. The nature of the existing competition in that market
5..The legal costs of trade including the contracts costs
6. The nature of existing contracts.
7. The costs of commercialisation into a new market
8. The costs of Intellectual property protection given that many UK companies only have protection in the UK and possibly the EU of their trademarks, designs, patents etc.

It is not a simple matter for a business to change from one market to another. It will take research and will cost money for companies to achieve.
 
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Death penalty ref' is a bit silly.

Won't happen

Quite funny to watch the diving off ships. Anyone heard of the wiggles song "hot potato, hot potato"?
 
cullennz said:
Death penalty ref' is a bit silly.

Won't happen

Quite funny to watch the diving off ships. Anyone heard of the wiggles song "hot potato, hot potato"?
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OK, wrong to say "guarantee". I am absolutely confident that there would be clamouring for it.
 
Rat said:
OK, wrong to say "guarantee". I am absolutely confident that there would be clamouring for it.
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Maybe.

It is quite odd watching a country in understandable regret, with no one with the balls to sort it

I've said it before. Cameron's career is screwed.

Just veto it and go away quietly.

He might even get kudos
 
cullennz said:
Maybe.

It is quite odd watching a country in understandable regret, with no one with the balls to sort it

I've said it before. Cameron's career is screwed.

Just veto it and go away quietly.

He might even get kudos
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Yeah, Cameron could step up to the plate and say "I'm sorry I screwed our nation for selfish party political manoeuvring, and in recognition of the fact that I have made a colossal mistake, set up the referendum in a half-baked, faulty fashion, and the result is not a legally binding document, I am making the decision to scrap the bad advice of the Brexit campaign, and therefore the referendum is invalid, and we are remaining in the EU."

His career is finished, but he might get some speaking engagements on the back of doing the right thing as he exits the political stage.

I doubt he'll have the balls to do it, though.
 
asydhouse said:
Yeah, Cameron could step up to the plate and say "I'm sorry I screwed our nation for selfish party political manoeuvring, and in recognition of the fact that I have made a colossal mistake, set up the referendum in a half-baked, faulty fashion, and the result is not a legally binding document, I am making the decision to scrap the bad advice of the Brexit campaign, and therefore the referendum is invalid, and we are remaining in the EU."

His career is finished, but he might get some speaking engagements on the back of doing the right thing as he exits the political stage.

I doubt he'll have the balls to do it, though.
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If he does do it, the country will collapse in disorder. The fascists will run amok.
 
asydhouse said:
Yeah, Cameron could step up to the plate and say "I'm sorry I screwed our nation for selfish party political manoeuvring, and in recognition of the fact that I have made a colossal mistake, set up the referendum in a half-baked, faulty fashion, and the result is not a legally binding document, I am making the decision to scrap the bad advice of the Brexit campaign, and therefore the referendum is invalid, and we are remaining in the EU."

His career is finished, but he might get some speaking engagements on the back of doing the right thing as he exits the political stage.

I doubt he'll have the balls to do it, though.
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Any faith in Westminster, Parliament and the European Union is permanently incinerated.
 
asydhouse said:
Yeah, Cameron could step up to the plate and say "I'm sorry I screwed our nation for selfish party political manoeuvring, and in recognition of the fact that I have made a colossal mistake, set up the referendum in a half-baked, faulty fashion, and the result is not a legally binding document, I am making the decision to scrap the bad advice of the Brexit campaign, and therefore the referendum is invalid, and we are remaining in the EU."

His career is finished, but he might get some speaking engagements on the back of doing the right thing as he exits the political stage.

I doubt he'll have the balls to do it, though.
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That's roughly the kind of scenario Farage is hoping for: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/nigel-farage-resigns-as-ukip-leader
“...Ukip is in a good position and will continue, with my full support to attract a significant vote. Whilst we will now leave the European Union, the terms of our withdrawal are unclear. If there is too much backsliding by the government and with the Labour party detached from many of its voters then Ukip’s best days may be yet to come...”
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Castro said:
That's roughly the kind of scenario Farage is hoping for: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/nigel-farage-resigns-as-ukip-leader
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Hmmm.

The victory for the leave side in the referendum means that my political ambition has been achieved. I came into this struggle from business because I wanted us to be a self-governing nation, not to become a career politician.

“Ukip is in a good position and will continue, with my full support to attract a significant vote. Whilst we will now leave the European Union, the terms of our withdrawal are unclear. If there is too much backsliding by the government and with the Labour party detached from many of its voters then Ukip’s best days may be yet to come.

If this guy was Pinnochio the UK could simply use him as an inexpensive and abundant source of wood for whatever purpose. The volumes generated might even suffice for green power generation nation-wide. The parliament would have to abolish the first law of thermodynamics, but this appears to be far easier than invoking A50 in any case.

McHrozni
 
Craig B said:
If he does do it, the country will collapse in disorder. The fascists will run amok.
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The problem by any sane politician in the UK now is how to prevent Brexit without a massive backlash from the retards who vote for Nigel Farage and his lot.

Cameron vetoing it could be a sensible short-term solution, but it would empower them to the maximum extent, make quite justifiable comments about lack of democracy and so on.

The least horrible way might be to put one of these hot air fans in power, see them fail spectacularly, and then pick up the pieces. It wouldn't be pretty, but there are no pretty scenarios left, only very ugly ones and even uglier ones. It's also a very hard thing to pull off.
Overall though, I think that UK needs a new general election, with at least one of the parties campaigning for a "think again". A victory of a party like that could be used to legitimately discount the referendum, without it being a do over - the politicians in power were unable to carry the will of the people, so new people were elected, but at a platform different from the results of the referendum, thus the will of the people clearly changed and the results can be ignored.

McHrozni
 
McHrozni said:
The problem by any sane politician in the UK now is how to prevent Brexit without a massive backlash from the retards who vote for Nigel Farage and his lot.

Cameron vetoing it could be a sensible short-term solution, but it would empower them to the maximum extent, make quite justifiable comments about lack of democracy and so on.

The least horrible way might be to put one of these hot air fans in power, see them fail spectacularly, and then pick up the pieces. It wouldn't be pretty, but there are no pretty scenarios left, only very ugly ones and even uglier ones. It's also a very hard thing to pull off.
Overall though, I think that UK needs a new general election, with at least one of the parties campaigning for a "think again". A victory of a party like that could be used to legitimately discount the referendum, without it being a do over - the politicians in power were unable to carry the will of the people, so new people were elected, but at a platform different from the results of the referendum, thus the will of the people clearly changed and the results can be ignored.

McHrozni
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It's always a tough situation. The neo-fascists never have to stick to their word, act respnsibly or be honest; nobody expects them to, especially not their supporters as long as they "stand up to the PC establishment" and whatnot. But God help you if you try to pull a fast one on THEM!
 
McHrozni said:
The problem by any sane politician in the UK now is how to prevent Brexit without a massive backlash from the retards who vote for Nigel Farage and his lot.

Cameron vetoing it could be a sensible short-term solution, but it would empower them to the maximum extent, make quite justifiable comments about lack of democracy and so on..........
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Do you understand just how ridiculous this sounds?

Remain lost. End of *********** story. For better or worse, we're out. There is nothing you can do about it, and there is nothing anyone should do about it. Do you not understand democracy? Do you not understand the constitutional crisis there would be if Brexit didn't happen? Frankly, this is spoilt-child territory: I didn't get my way so I'm going to scream and scream and stamp my foot.
 
MikeG said:
That isn't info, that is opinion. The politicians job now is to obey the instructions of the referendum result and negotiate the best deal they can.
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The "best" deal being a matter of opinion.

The civil servants job is to enable that, and to enact that. However unpalatable this decision might be, it's done. Over. Decided. Now, we just have to find a way of making it work.
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What if there's no way of making it "work"?
 
McHrozni said:
The problem by any sane politician in the UK now is how to prevent Brexit without a massive backlash from the retards who vote for Nigel Farage and his lot.
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The solution is to not care.

Cameron vetoing it could be a sensible short-term solution, but it would empower them to the maximum extent, make quite justifiable comments about lack of democracy and so on.
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A conversation we should perhaps be having anyway?
 
MikeG said:
Do you not understand the constitutional crisis there would be if Brexit didn't happen?
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How in the world would there be a constitutional crisis? Clearly the decision is within the purview of the Royal Prerogative.
 
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