Merged Now What?

[Hlafordlaes]

... In the longer term (20+ years) the EU is turning into a "United States of Europe" kind of federation. They will be announcing what they'll be spending money on for the next 7 years very soon, and that is expected to contain plans for an EU army, amongst other things. Little by little the EU is accumulating more power and control over the member states.

I think that if we don't like the direction the EU is heading, then it's less painful to leave sooner rather than later, or worse, deal with the aftermath of some unforseen events causing the EU to breakup while we're still a member.

1st attempt at comment: censored
2nd attempt at comment: censored

Final comment:
That the irony of this position is lost on Brits, especially among those who remember WWII, is what most indicates all is lost.

Rest of text of final comment also censored. Needless to say, my regard for the UK is nosediving at full speed.

 

[catsmate]

<snip>I am fairly sure though that the costs of membership of the single market will outweigh the benefits, and that we'll end up out.

Which of course is why all those companies and economists agree with your opinion.

Oh wait.....

 

[catsmate]

There are certainly freedoms and benefits, but we don't have a free market in financial services in the EU. As I said previously, UK insurance companies can't sell insurance directly in Europe, and I suspect it is vice versa.

As has been pointed out this is simply untrue. You either don't know what your talking about, or are actively lying.

 

[The Don]

1st attempt at comment: censored
2nd attempt at comment: censored

Final comment:
That the irony of this position is lost on Brits, especially among those who remember WWII, is what most indicates all is lost.

Rest of text of final comment also censored. Needless to say, my regard for the UK is nosediving at full speed.

Heyyyyyyyy ! Not all of us over here share Ambrosia's vision of where the EU is heading or the amount of influence and/or control the UK would have had.....

 

[Ambrosia]

Final comment:
That the irony of this position is lost on Brits, especially among those who remember WWII, is what most indicates all is lost.

Rest of text of final comment also censored. Needless to say, my regard for the UK is nosediving at full speed.

I have stated repeatedly in these threads (which are a bit all over the place to say the least, so you might have missed it)

I am pro European Union. I am, however, anti EU.

How the EU is doing it, imo, is bad and there are much better ways to go about it.

 

[McHrozni]

I have stated repeatedly in these threads (which are a bit all over the place to say the least, so you might have missed it)

I am pro European Union. I am, however, anti EU.

How the EU is doing it, imo, is bad and there are much better ways to go about it.

Like how?

McHrozni

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

One sensible argument I have heard regarding banking is that the UK financial regulations being so lax make it attractive for banks to stay here even if the UK is out of the EU. They would of course prefer the UK to be IN to get all the benefits of both though.

This to me makes sense and there will be some weighing up of the pluses and minuses i'm sure. But I think we can expect some proportion of the business to leave and some proportion to stay. Banks being quite clever will no doubt have a cunning plan to bend the rules to their favour

 

[MikeG]

As has been pointed out this is simply untrue. You either don't know what your talking about, or are actively lying.

Yeah, yeah, whatever. Anyway have a little read:

Although the necessary legal framework for offering insurance contracts on the basis of the free movement of services
already exists since 1994, from a consumer’s perspective the market for insurance contracts is still more or less purely national in scope. Therefore, cross-border insurance contracts are very much niche products

There is a legal framework, but many other barriers in place making this aspect of the supposed single market in financial services barely functional.

 

[Lothian]

One sensible argument I have heard regarding banking is that the UK financial regulations being so lax make it attractive for banks to stay here even if the UK is out of the EU. They would of course prefer the UK to be IN to get all the benefits of both though.

This to me makes sense and there will be some weighing up of the pluses and minuses i'm sure. But I think we can expect some proportion of the business to leave and some proportion to stay. Banks being quite clever will no doubt have a cunning plan to bend the rules to their favour

Deregulation and pretty much abolishimg corporation tax is one model that I have heard
Basically we would be a huge Tax Haven....
I mean an even bigger Tax Haven

 

[MikeG]

I have stated repeatedly in these threads (which are a bit all over the place to say the least, so you might have missed it)

I am pro European Union. I am, however, anti EU.

How the EU is doing it, imo, is bad and there are much better ways to go about it.

This is broadly my position too. It should have developed as a free trade zone, in the way every other free trade zone in the world has, without the supra-national bodies, political integration, bureaucracy, and currency. Do I have to say IMO?

 

[McHrozni]

One sensible argument I have heard regarding banking is that the UK financial regulations being so lax make it attractive for banks to stay here even if the UK is out of the EU.

How much tax revenue would UK have to give up for that to happen? Are there any calculations?

McHrozni

 

[The Don]

One sensible argument I have heard regarding banking is that the UK financial regulations being so lax make it attractive for banks to stay here even if the UK is out of the EU. They would of course prefer the UK to be IN to get all the benefits of both though.

This to me makes sense and there will be some weighing up of the pluses and minuses i'm sure. But I think we can expect some proportion of the business to leave and some proportion to stay. Banks being quite clever will no doubt have a cunning plan to bend the rules to their favour

One thing that 2008 taught us is that there the downsides of loose financial regulation are negligible

Deregulation and pretty much abolishimg corporation tax is one model that I have heard
Basically we would be a huge Tax Haven....
I mean an even bigger Tax Haven

I don't understand how that would work in the context of an economy as large as the UK. For a tiny tax haven, taking a miniscule proportion of the huge sums of money sloshing around can work because the overall take is sufficient.

I don't think that scales effectively to an economy the size of the UK

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

How much tax revenue would UK have to give up for that to happen? Are there any calculations?

McHrozni

I think this was based on the current situation so presumably nothing. Its more to do with the regulation of what banks are allowed to do rather than tax rates or whatever.

If they moved to Germany or France they simply wouldn't be able to operate in the same way.

Of course that might just mean they keep the 'dodgy deals' in the UK and move the rest.

 

[CapelDodger]

Why would you presume that? No, you're wrong. I mean stay out of the single market altogether. It isn't complicated.

I asked what you regard as the "price" of staying in the single market - a price that's not worth paying, in your opinion. If the "price" isn't freedom of movement, what is it?

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

I asked what you regard as the "price" of staying in the single market - a price that's not worth paying, in your opinion. If the "price" isn't freedom of movement, what is it?

In the words of Mel Gibson:

FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDOM!

Or something.

 

[McHrozni]

I don't understand how that would work in the context of an economy as large as the UK. For a tiny tax haven, taking a miniscule proportion of the huge sums of money sloshing around can work because the overall take is sufficient.

I don't think that scales effectively to an economy the size of the UK

I think it does, you'd only need to abolish things like subsidies, most of investment, social security and pensions while completely privatizing and getting our of certain other areas, like education, health care, firefighting, police ...

You know, become mostly like England was before the Civil war? That sort of thing.

McHrozni

 

[GlennB]

Yeah, yeah, whatever. Anyway have a little read:



There is a legal framework, but many other barriers in place making this aspect of the supposed single market in financial services barely functional.

Most of their list of "barriers" boil down to crappy software making assumptions. For example: "Only postal codes with four digits can be entered. Therefore, all postal codes that do not fulfil this requirement
are excluded"

Given that only Austria of the 4 countries they tested use a postcode as short as 4 digits I'm wondering if they were crappy tests.

Anyway, your response is pretty feeble given the absolute nature of your initial claim.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

every other free trade zone in the world has,

Are there any free trade zones in the world even remotely comparable to the EU?

I'd be interested to hear what example the EU should have followed.

 

[Hlafordlaes]

Heyyyyyyyy ! Not all of us over here share Ambrosia's vision of where the EU is heading or the amount of influence and/or control the UK would have had.....

Thanks, I rather needed that. If I watch the news, I despair. I am actually actively repeating to myself "remember the 48+%" over and over.

Desperate times, these, on both sides of the Atlantic. It doesn't help that I find scant support, even here on ISF, for the idea that the rock upon which the edifice of democracy is built is called equality. Take that out of the mental equation for "freedom," and what you really get is pure and simple tribalism, and a zero sum game of tug of war.

 

[Tolls]

Are there any free trade zones in the world even remotely comparable to the EU?

I'd be interested to hear what example the EU should have followed.

I've picked two at random (that were blocs and not bilateral), the Caribbean one and the South American one, both of which mention further integration, including bringing laws into line with each other.

It's Friday, so I can't be arsed to go through the rest.