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Merged Now What?

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Archie Gemmill Goal said:
I believe the number is 4. Bristol Morgan Caterham and MacLaren.
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AFAIK Bristol's long gone :(


edited to add.....


The company suspended manufacturing in March 2011, when administrators were appointed and 22 staff were made redundant. In April 2011, the company was purchased by Kamkorp. Since 2011, the company has restored and sold all models of the marque while a new model is being developed.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Cars
 
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Archie Gemmill Goal said:
I believe the number is 4. Bristol Morgan Caterham and MacLaren. And those combined don't even build 5,000 cars a year I would guess. Its hard to keep track there might be more but the 5000 figure would still stand. Can't remember if Ariel, AC, Nobel and a few others are British owned or just British HQ.

The largest plant is Nissan (~500k/year) with Toyota, Honda, Vauxhall, Mini and Jaguar also major builders.

I can't help but think at least one of those will be gone even before the UK formally exits the EU.
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There are good reasons for Bentley, Rolls Royce, Jaguar, Land Rover and Mini to keep manufacturing here....

There are good reasons for Toyota, Honda and Nissan to look towards the continent.
 
angrysoba said:
I know. I was thinking of all the constituent bits of Scotland. The Highlands, the Orkneys.
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Yeah the problem is it's kind of difficult to actually define those constituent bits in any way that makes sense because the people don't really identify with any of the constituent bits in any real way that's also consistent.

Nobody says 'I'm from North Lanarkshire' or 'I'm from Strathclyde' you might get people saying 'I'm from Orkney' or 'I'm from Glasgow' but those are two different kind of 'bits' with hugely different populations.

There would be no point in creating artificial zones of say 1m people each if those zones were meaningless in any real way and equally you couldn't sensibly say that every one of the political constituencies must vote yes in order for a yes vote to be legitimate.

Anything you did in that respect would be seen as merely trying to stack the deck to get the result you want.

As for the EU ref, there are real special circumstances for each nation that I think justified the rule proposed by the SNP even though in principle I was cautious about it. I don't even think the Scottish argument is the strongest one, the one I really think is important is N.I.

That place is going to throw up some serious serious political challenges now if they try to enforce the UK/EU land border between families and people's homes/places of work not to mention the past unpleasantness.
 
The Don said:
There are good reasons for Bentley, Rolls Royce, Jaguar, Land Rover and Mini to keep manufacturing here....

There are good reasons for Toyota, Honda and Nissan to look towards the continent.
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In terms of brand yes. In terms of economics there are good reasons to move all production but in particular that portion that is destined for the EU.

There's also the slight issue of having to import EU made parts, assemble them here and then export the final product back to the EU. Double tariffs, I believe.
 
Does this mean we'll be able to call Starbursts, Opel Fruits again?
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Yeah the problem is it's kind of difficult to actually define those constituent bits in any way that makes sense because the people don't really identify with any of the constituent bits in any real way that's also consistent.

Nobody says 'I'm from North Lanarkshire' or 'I'm from Strathclyde' you might get people saying 'I'm from Orkney' or 'I'm from Glasgow' but those are two different kind of 'bits' with hugely different populations.

There would be no point in creating artificial zones of say 1m people each if those zones were meaningless in any real way and equally you couldn't sensibly say that every one of the political constituencies must vote yes in order for a yes vote to be legitimate.

Anything you did in that respect would be seen as merely trying to stack the deck to get the result you want.

As for the EU ref, there are real special circumstances for each nation that I think justified the rule proposed by the SNP even though in principle I was cautious about it. I don't even think the Scottish argument is the strongest one, the one I really think is important is N.I.

That place is going to throw up some serious serious political challenges now if they try to enforce the UK/EU land border between families and people's homes/places of work not to mention the past unpleasantness.
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As far as I can tell the enforcing of a border between the UK and Ireland is unlikely if both countries remain outside Schengen.

However, I could be wrong about that and I would be interested to know what other legal obligations there are on Ireland if the UK leaves the EU.
 
angrysoba said:
As far as I can tell the enforcing of a border between the UK and Ireland is unlikely if both countries remain outside Schengen.

However, I could be wrong about that and I would be interested to know what other legal obligations there are on Ireland if the UK leaves the EU.
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I don't really see how no border can practically work if the 'control our borders' rhetoric is to have any actual effect in implementation. It may be that noone actually cares in which case we can just pretend it's all fine.

If there is no border then the UK doesn't control it's only land border with the EU. Ireland does. I don't think Schengen makes much practical difference to that.

If the Leave scare-stories about terrorists are to be believed, a French Muslim can fly to Dublin, drive to Belfast and blow something up completely unaccosted.

If take back our borders means anything (and maybe it never did) then surely some kind of check will be required at least? Armed British police at the border checking ID?
 
kevsta said:
this is the most anti-democratic of establishments, who give not a flying **** about the Plebs opinions yesterday we had Schulz admitting:

Schulz: "The British have violated the rules. It is not the EU philosophy that the crowd can decide its fate".
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Forgive me if it has been stated already, will probably not read everything that already follows - but if you track that "quote" into and out of the twitterverse, you end up with Satire. Not a real Schulz quote, who is choleric (contrary to Juncker he's an ex-alcoholic) but among the Eurocrats one of those who made some halfway credible noises for more democracy.
 
angrysoba said:
Maybe the only other possibility I can see is someone of a Daniel Hamman mould from the backbenches appearing.
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Okay, I think I have found a potential candidate. I think a Leaver will win, but an ambitious Leaver without the baggage of Johnson, Gove and Fox.

Apparently the guy is called Dominic Raab. He's someone considered media savvy, he's a lawyer who's been involved in negotiating human rights and he was involved in the Leave campaign of only in the backroom.

I'm calling it now, he's the next Prime Minister.

(By the way, my predictions in the Brexit prediction thread were extraordinary. Thought I should add that before you mortgage the house and place the money at Paddy Power).
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
I believe the number is 4. Bristol Morgan Caterham and MacLaren. And those combined don't even build 5,000 cars a year I would guess. Its hard to keep track there might be more but the 5000 figure would still stand. Can't remember if Ariel, AC, Nobel and a few others are British owned or just British HQ.

The largest plant is Nissan (~500k/year) with Toyota, Honda, Vauxhall, Mini and Jaguar also major builders.

I can't help but think at least one of those will be gone even before the UK formally exits the EU.
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I've seen Australia's car industry disappear due to lack of government support. The UK industry will go more through through neglect.
 
The Don said:
There are good reasons for Bentley, Rolls Royce, Jaguar, Land Rover and Mini to keep manufacturing here.
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For the brand name alone? Good luck. I doubt it. People in the main buy the brand, not the country of origin. I bought a Honda made in Thailand. It was still a Honda.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
I don't really see how no border can practically work if the 'control our borders' rhetoric is to have any actual effect in implementation. It may be that noone actually cares in which case we can just pretend it's all fine.

If there is no border then the UK doesn't control it's only land border with the EU. Ireland does. I don't think Schengen makes much practical difference to that.

If the Leave scare-stories about terrorists are to be believed, a French Muslim can fly to Dublin, drive to Belfast and blow something up completely unaccosted.

If take back our borders means anything (and maybe it never did) then surely some kind of check will be required at least? Armed British police at the border checking ID?
Click to expand...

My hunch here (and bear in mind my uncanny predictive powers) is that the UK will have no chance of "control of borders". But beyond that I think very few people in England will notice it is unguarded anyway, just as few Americans think of putting a wall on the Canadian border. My guess is that the anti-immigrant mob are really not smart enough to think through that scenario and even people like Farage will have no expectation of making any worthwhile political capital from calling for an armed border.
 
Other brexit news.
Stephen King (chief economist for HSBC) tells the Treasury committee that Sterling's fall so far is consistent with predictions of GBP $1.20 by end of year.

Sir Richard Branson has warned that Chinese business partners and investors are already pulling investment from the UK. He also predicts that brexit will cause "thousands of jobs" to be lost and that 3,000 potential jobs have already evaporated.
I met with a group of Chinese businessmen yesterday morning who have invested heavily in England and who are now going to stop investing and withdraw investments they’ve already made.
I’m afraid that based on misinformation, people voted for Brexit, which is basically voting for a way of shooting themselves in the foot. The last 2 days has been absolute pandemonium worldwide in the markets, the pound crashing, the stock markets crashing, and we are heading rapidly towards a recession again. It’s just too sad, so so sad.
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Branson has joined calls for a second referendum, citing the lies of the Leave campaign. Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt also wants Brexit II.

George Osborne has become the latest Conservative politician to decline the poison chalice, ruling himself out of becoming the next prime minister. He's also warned Britons to expect "higher taxes, and lower spending" to deal with the economic damage caused by the Brexit vote.

Kit Juckes (Societe Generale) also predicts further trouble for Sterling, saying "the clouds on the horizon are dark, and they’re real. Sterling can bounce to $1.35 for example- but the UK has no Government and no plan for the future".

The Leave promises of unlimited fishing rights have also been exposed as untrue; in fact it's possible that fishing quotas may actually decrease. [Guardian]
 
I'd just like to make it clear that I'm ruling myself out of standing for the Tory leadership. I thought I needed to do that, as I would stand more chance of winning than Jeremy Hunt - and he is apparently thinking of standing.
 
Interview on BBC Radio4 "World
at One"
German MEP*Christian Ehler, a member of*Angela Merkel's Christian Democrat Party, says*there is*"no other way" for the UK*to start negotiations other than by*triggering Article 50.

There will be "no back door" and no informal negotiations,*

He suggests that the UK cannot be*"Switzerland with nukes and a global perspective", adding:*"We are going to expel Switzerland at the beginning of the*next year from all of the European programmes"*because the Swiss people rejected freedom of movement in a recent referendum.

Why should we treat anyone else differently than we treat Switzerland?"
 
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