Merged Now What?

[jimbob]

British Rail was sacrificed on the alter of Tory Ideology.
That you would even try to claim the EU had anything to do with the butchery of the railways has to be a joke.

Indeed, and the privatised rail service got more tax funding than British Rail, and the East Coast Main Line went from being profitible, to failing so badly that it was renationalised, whereupon it became the only part of the network to be a net contributor to the Treasury.

The privatised model only works (for certain values of "work") with more state funding than the nationalised model.

It is a huge case of "do as I say, don't do as I do".

If EU was as democratic as UK, we would have a live hereditary emperor with limited power, and a commission partly nominated by party which won election partly with hereditary inheritance/religious denomination.

But y, it is the EU so it is evil. But when it is UK, it is fine.

I don't like the idea of Hereditary Peers in the House of Lords, but they are less corrosive than what has replaced them, which are nominees of the party leaders. That encourages cronyism.

 

[jimbob]

Like Carthage, Boris Johnson must be destroyed. Not sidelined, not eclipsed, but utterly and very publicly ruined. A delightful prospect, I'm sure we'd all agree.

I think that the steps taken by the new British PM thus far are exactly in line with that. Gross political ineptitude, or shrewd setting them up to fail? We'll know within a 3-12 months.

McHrozni

How much credibility will he have when people point out the lies that he has written - especially on the EU,

 

[jimbob]

Oh, I do too. I don't like the direction all these EU directives concerning rail, utilities etc. are suggesting, but really, there's a lot of leeway there on how to implement them, including continued state ownership.


Not happy with Indian ownership?

Or maybe British Steel has never been run efficiently enough to compete. The Dutch wiki tells me that at the time of the merger with Dutch Hoogovens, in 1999, British Steel had a revenue of NLG 21bn with 50,000 employees, while Dutch Hoogovens had a revenue of NLG 10.8bn with 20,000 employees. I think you can see an obvious problem there.

The previous British government blocked the EU steel anti dumping measures.

 

[CapelDodger]

Here we are, at a time of uncertainty, debating the state of the Navy. How very British.

 

[jimbob]

Batch 1 and Clyde aren't anywhere near as capable as the Batch 2 in fact Batch 2 are almost a seperate class.

The Batch 2 ships are fundamentally different in appearance and capabilities, more thsn 30ft longer (296*ft 11*in) higher top speed of 24*knots.*Merlin-capable flight deck full width superstructure, and a different above-water hull form with greater bow flare. They also have proper air and surface surveillance radar and a combat management system, protected magazine and ' real' firefighting systems, they are intended to go in to action on anti-piracy, counter-terrorism and anti-smuggling operations.
At the moment Frigates and Destroyers do it but they are overkill.
Back when I was in the navy older Tribals and Rothesays or even a Batch 1 Leander would be used and even they were overkill.

Completely O/T: Why not go for a USN style Littoral Combat Ship as a cheaper alternative to a frigate?

 

[Klimax]

Completely O/T: Why not go for a USN style Littoral Combat Ship as a cheaper alternative to a frigate?

Cheaper???

 

[jimbob]

Cheaper???

Well they have the capabilities of ships that would be far cheaper than frigates.

A metaphor for the EEA option as opposed to membership of the EU.

ETA: But I think they are now called frigates

 

[McHrozni]

Here we are, at a time of uncertainty, debating the state of the Navy. How very British.

I think we exhausted the other topics for the time being, honestly

McHrozni

 

[ohms]

Well nobody actually knows what Brexit means at the moment, other than it means Brexit of course

Until we have a clear idea expect to see all negative economic news blamed on it by the Remain camp ... and all good economic news put forward as a sign of how Brexit will be good for the UK by the Leave camp. Personally, I think it will take several years to play out.

 

[The Don]

Well nobody actually knows what Brexit means at the moment, other than it means Brexit of course

Unless of course, though some kind of machinations, it ends up not meaning that at all.

Until we have a clear idea expect to see all negative economic news blamed on it by the Remain camp ... and all good economic news put forward as a sign of how Brexit will be good for the UK by the Leave camp. Personally, I think it will take several years to play out.

True, but it's a bit galling when we were assured by the Leave campaign that the experts knew nothing - and now it turns out that they did.

 

[McHrozni]

I heard on radio that the current plan is to postpone Brexit until after the elections in France and Germany - or until September 2017 at least.

Plenty of time for the "think again" campaign, that's for sure.

McHrozni

 

[Aepervius]

I heard on radio that the current plan is to postpone Brexit until after the elections in France and Germany - or until September 2017 at least.

Plenty of time for the "think again" campaign, that's for sure.

McHrozni

Not that they can do anything against it, but I doubt it will incur the favor of Germany and France which want a speedy brexit...

ETA: Also this means 1 year of market uncertainty...

 

[McHrozni]

Not that they can do anything against it, but I doubt it will incur the favor of Germany and France which want a speedy brexit...

They can do everything until the A50 is triggered. After that, things become ... complicated. They now have a year, and could be amply helped by the shaved orangutan and his friends. If they ramp up enough scandals it could tip the public opinion against Brexit far enough for Theresa "Brexit means Brexit" May to reconsider her position and allow for either a second referendum or force her into early elections or do something else entirely.

I doubt the time is on the Brexitard side anyway. It is fast becoming clear just how a mammoth task this is, how unprepared the UK is for it and how poorly it can expect to fare. In light of this a fall in support for Brexit - never strong to begin with - could be utilized by the sane portion of British politicians to sink the whole effort entirely.

ETA: Also this means 1 year of market uncertainty...

Yep. It can't be helped, 1 year of market uncertainty is still better than two that would surely follow if A50 was triggered immediately.

McHrozni

 

[catsmate]

I heard on radio that the current plan is to postpone Brexit until after the elections in France and Germany - or until September 2017 at least.

Plenty of time for the "think again" campaign, that's for sure.

McHrozni

And perhaps a copy of the Swiss "let's try this again" second referendum?

 

[McHrozni]

And perhaps a copy of the Swiss "let's try this again" second referendum?

Perhaps. If the surveys show remain side now has a definitive edge (55% or more), following this referendum come hell or high water can no longer be called democratic all that easily.

McHrozni

 

[Darat]

You need to remember that the political wonks, politicians and media in the UK don't work during August so we will really not have a clue as to the speed of the exit process until they are back on the job. We will start to get a better picture come end of September.

 

[McHrozni]

You need to remember that the political wonks, politicians and media in the UK don't work during August so we will really not have a clue as to the speed of the exit process until they are back on the job. We will start to get a better picture come end of September.

This implies the current speed is zero from our frame of reference

McHrozni

 

[catsmate]

This implies the current speed is zero from our frame of reference

McHrozni

I was going to make a molasses comparison but I was recently writing up an article on the Great Boston Molasses Flood and I remember that there the molasses moved faster than people.
Slower than a journalist leaving a free bar perhaps?

 

[Andy_Ross]

Tory MP and Whip Heather Wheeler claims the British Empire won the Olympics with 396 medals compared to 320 for Rest of the World and 256 for the EU (Post Brexit)

"Empire goes for Gold" and "Now for the trade agreements"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-37163416

 

[Craig B]

I don't like the idea of Hereditary Peers in the House of Lords, but they are less corrosive than what has replaced them, which are nominees of the party leaders. That encourages cronyism.

There are other methods of selection of upper houses of the legislature than heredity or government patronage. I would be interested to know if there has been another democratic society which, confronted with outmoded survivals of its mediaeval constitution, has reformed them in such a way as to make them worse!

One good thing: this has completed the humiliation and discrediting of that crook Cameron.