Nothing vs Everything

[Iacchus]

Yes, the fact that something does exist, goes completely and unequivocally beyond any notion of nothing. In fact we have a whole Universe set in its place just to maintain that "something" can exist. So you see it can't just be nothing versus something. It has to be nothing versus everything. In which case we have a whole Universe built upon structure ... built upon structure ... built upon structure ... all the way unto infinity. Whoa dude! So what else could that possibly suggest, except something which can only be described as, super-intelligent.

 

[Kopji]

So why can't this intelligence be some sort of super galactic conglomerate? Why only one intelligence? Why couldn't the Earth have been created from some kind of do-it-yourself kit? (That would explain the 'six days' thing). Galaxies cluster together or form threads, star systems do, maybe even other universes. All optimized for commerce.
So many questions we can't ever answer.

Maybe the universe has a form that causes it to just "be", rather than "not be". If there was ever a 'theory of everything' figured out, it might go a long way toward explaining why anything bothers to exist at all. Is it any easier to believe in an eternal God, than an endless natural cycle of universes being created and destroyed according to some law we do not yet know or even begin to guess?

 

[hgc]

Hey Man, do you ever look at your paw? I mean, really look at it.

 

[Ratman_tf]

But what DOES the notion OF nothing mean? Hm? Can YOU answer that?

 

[Z]

So, in other words, it's all or nothing?

Nope... still doesn't work.

The whole does not have the properties that each part has. The parts do not have all the properties of the whole. The 'whole' is not any given thing - the 'Universe' wasn't made for any purpose, least of all to support life.

 

[Kopji]

Hey Man, do you ever look at your paw? I mean, really look at it.

I'm having trouble following things today.

 

[Iacchus]

So why can't this intelligence be some sort of super galactic conglomerate? Why only one intelligence? Why couldn't the Earth have been created from some kind of do-it-yourself kit? (That would explain the 'six days' thing). Galaxies cluster together or form threads, star systems do, maybe even other universes. All optimized for commerce.
So many questions we can't ever answer.

Maybe the universe has a form that causes it to just "be", rather than "not be". If there was ever a 'theory of everything' figured out, it might go a long way toward explaining why anything bothers to exist at all. Is it any easier to believe in an eternal God, than an endless natural cycle of universes being created and destroyed according to some law we do not yet know or even begin to guess?

Well I'm not so sure what you're saying here, but basically what I'm asking is what does infinite structure imply? I have heard that the human mind is the most complex structure on the planet, which of course makes sense, so what does that mean in terms of a Universe (as a whole) which is infinitely more complex than that? Why couldn't it constitute an ever larger system, hence an ever larger brain, hence an ever super-intelligence? Why not? There are microcosms within macrocosms are there not? Why couldn't the earth be the microcosm of what the Universe is as a whole? While certainly the earth (us) must be a reflection of that don't you think?

 

[Iacchus]

So, in other words, it's all or nothing?

Nope... still doesn't work.

The whole does not have the properties that each part has. The parts do not have all the properties of the whole. The 'whole' is not any given thing - the 'Universe' wasn't made for any purpose, least of all to support life.

What is a brain cell, compared to the body as a whole? What is an eco-system, without a diversity of constituent parts?

 

[KingMerv00]

Well I'm not so sure what you're saying here, but basically what I'm asking is what does infinite structure imply? I have heard that the human mind is the most complex structure on the planet, which of course makes sense, so what does that mean in terms of a Universe (as a whole) which is infinitely more complex than that? Why couldn't it constitute an ever larger system, hence an ever larger brain, hence an ever super-intelligence? Why not? There are microcosms within macrocosms are there not? Why couldn't the earth be the microcosm of what the Universe is as a whole? While certainly the earth (us) must be a reflection of that don't you think?

You are asking questions but provide no answers. Yes, there COULD be a super-intellect. How would you know the difference between that and NO super-intellect? You'd have to find evidence. I am not aware of any.

 

[Kopji]

Why couldn't it constitute an ever larger system, hence an ever larger brain, hence an ever super-intelligence? Why not? There are microcosms within macrocosms are there not? Why couldn't the earth be the microcosm of what the Universe is as a whole? While certainly the earth (us) must be a reflection of that don't you think?

The benefit might be a sense of unity with the universe. But a simpler way to recognize that unity is to perceive that we are constrained by the same geometry. We look at the tiniest things and the largest galaxies and we recognize similar patterns that we call 'order'. The patterns might be analogous to what in writing we call archetypes. Throughout history, of the great and small we recognize various roles: heros and villains. Patterns that repeat through the ages. The greatest or most lasting patterns we repeat as myths: stories that often reach us deeply and guide our culture.

The universe might display a physical version of such archetypes. The geometric patterns we see in our daily lives, even unconsciously, are repeated in the grandest structures. This does not imply some super-intelligence, or an ever larger mind. Only that the small brush-strokes that create us are repetitions of the broad swaths and majestic spans of a galaxy.

 

[Iacchus]

You are asking questions but provide no answers. Yes, there COULD be a super-intellect. How would you know the difference between that and NO super-intellect? You'd have to find evidence. I am not aware of any.

The Universe is at least as intelligent as all the living beings on this planet. And we're just scratching the surface here, no doubt. Who knows? Maybe the earth is equivalent to one of God's brain cells?

 

[Donks]

The Universe is at least as intelligent as all the living beings on this planet.

Why? How are you defining the Universe's intelligence? Is "Planet Earth" as intelligent as all the living being on it?

 

[Iacchus]

Why? How are you defining the Universe's intelligence? Is "Planet Earth" as intelligent as all the living being on it?

How would you define the "collective consciousness" of all the living cells in one brain?

 

[Iacchus]

The benefit might be a sense of unity with the universe. But a simpler way to recognize that unity is to perceive that we are constrained by the same geometry. We look at the tiniest things and the largest galaxies and we recognize similar patterns that we call 'order'. The patterns might be analogous to what in writing we call archetypes. Throughout history, of the great and small we recognize various roles: heros and villains. Patterns that repeat through the ages. The greatest or most lasting patterns we repeat as myths: stories that often reach us deeply and guide our culture.

Your whole post here is very well put.

The universe might display a physical version of such archetypes. The geometric patterns we see in our daily lives, even unconsciously, are repeated in the grandest structures. This does not imply some super-intelligence, or an ever larger mind. Only that the small brush-strokes that create us are repetitions of the broad swaths and majestic spans of a galaxy.

Yes, but don't you see how it can provide for the possibility? With all the complexity and structure that we see in our own lives, except on a much grander scale?

 

[Donks]

How would you define the "collective consciousness" of all the living cells in one brain?

I didn't use the term "collective consciousness", and at the moment I have no definition of it, particularly applied to all the living cells in one brain. You have yet to define your terms.

 

[Iacchus]

You'd have to find evidence. I am not aware of any.

All you need to do is look around you. Everywhere. The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts.

 

[Iacchus]

I didn't use the term "collective consciousness", and at the moment I have no definition of it, particularly applied to all the living cells in one brain. You have yet to define your terms.

What is a brain but a collection of brain cells, that work together "collectively."

 

[Donks]

What is a brain but a collection of brain cells, that work together "collectively."

Great, you just defined what a brain is. How's that definition for the intelligence of the Universe coming along?

 

[KingMerv00]

All you need to do is look around you. Everywhere. The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts.

Let me reword my question.

There are two common theories: Creation by an intelligence and creation by mindless forces of nature.

Both theories can predict the state of the world accurately. How can you tell which one is correct?

 

[Iacchus]

Let me reword my question.

There are two common theories: Creation by an intelligence and creation by mindless forces of nature.

Both theories can predict the state of the world accurately. How can you tell which one is correct?

There is nothing "mindless" about the way things behave. In fact things are known to be quite predictable. It could be just as easy as following a "predefined" course.