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Norad

I think, what it comes down to is, we were defenseless against an attack and norad was not doing its job. No conspiracy, but we were open to attack by anyone without much of a competant defense and may be in the future.
 
psy kick said:
I think, what it comes down to is, we were defenseless against an attack and norad was not doing its job. No conspiracy, but we were open to attack by anyone without much of a competant defense and may be in the future.
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The problem is that NORAD wasn't really tasked with protecting against the type of threat that happened on 9/11. It's not their fault, it's just the way it was. Nothing like that is going to happen again, mainly because there is no way that terrorists are going to manage to hijack planes after 9/11.
 
psy kick said:
I think, what it comes down to is, we were defenseless against an attack and norad was not doing its job. No conspiracy, but we were open to attack by anyone without much of a competant defense and may be in the future.
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NORAD was set-up to defend against threats from OUTSIDE the country. So what did they do wrong?
 
dtugg;4238282That is exactly the same plane that I was talking about. Did you even read the article?[/QUOTE said:
Then why did you lie about how long it took a plane that was close by to intercept?
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ULTIMA1 said:
Then why did you lie about how long it took a plane that was close by to intercept?
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I didn't. From last contact to intercept was longer than they had for any flights on 9/11. Did you actually read the article?
 
DGM said:
NORAD was set-up to defend against threats from OUTSIDE the country. So what did they do wrong?
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NORAD's job is to defend the US agains all threats not just OUTSIDE the country.

So fun and easy to prove you wrong with facts.

http://www.norad.mil/about/index.html
Aerospace control includes ensuring air sovereignty and air defense of the airspace of Canada and the United States.
 
dtugg said:
I didn't. From last contact to intercept was longer than they had for any flights on 9/11.
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I have read all the articles and it did not take over an hour for the F-16 (that was close by) to intercept his plane.
 
ULTIMA1 said:
NORAD's job is to defend the US agains all threats not just OUTSIDE the country.

So fun and easy to prove you wrong with facts.http://www.norad.mil/about/index.html
Aerospace control includes ensuring air sovereignty and air defense of the airspace of Canada and the United States.
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So when will you start? My 10 year old has better reading comprehension then you do.
 
ULTIMA1 said:
I have read all the articles and it did not take over an hour for the F-16 (that was close by) to intercept his plane.
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If you read the article, you would know that it took 87 minutes from last contact to intercept. Stop embarrassing yourself.
 
These arguments are like stepping into a time machine. It's as if CTers are stuck in 2003 and didn't get any updates.
 
ULTIMA1 said:
If NORAD was the legitimate professionals you say how do you account for the fact that they let 4 planes go unintercpeted on 9/11?

Either they were incompetent that day or they were told to stand down.
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Once you get back from suspension (again) please feel feel to explain exactly how NORAD should have been able to intercept these planes given that the most notice they had for any of them was 10 minutes, and that was with AA11. Feel free to explain how they could have intercepted flight UA175 when they were only informed of its hijacking by NYATC at the same time as it was crashing. Free free to explain how they could have intercepted UA93 when they weren't alerted to its hijacking until AFTER it had crashed. Feel feel to explain how they should have intercepted AA77 when they were only informed three minutes before it crashed that it was hijacked and never informed of its location. Really, please feel free to explain all of this, even though I know you won't.
 
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PhantomWolf said:
Once you get back from suspension (again) please feel feel to explain exactly how NORAD should have been able to intercept these planes given that the most notice they had for any of them was 10 minutes, and that was with AA11. Feel free to explain how they could have intercepted flight UA175 when they were only informed of its hijacking by NYATC at the same time as it was crashing. Free free to explain how they could have intercepted UA93 when they weren't alerted to its hijacking until AFTER it had crashed. Feel feel to explain how they should have intercepted AA77 when they were only informed three minutes before it crashed that it was hijacked and never informed of its location. Really, please feel free to explain all of this, even though I know you won't.
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So NORAD is in the clear because of all the rampant incompetence on 9/11?

Perfect.
 
I doubt if any truthers know how many planes are flying around the US at a given time. I doubt the know who is controlling where those planes go, what course, altitude. Who would know when one of them goes off course and why. I doubt any truthers know about the different types of radar tracking.

I trutherville it happens like in the movies. If a plane goes off course red lights flash, NORAD know instantaneously, jets are scrambled. The pilots can find the errant aircraft with super duper "see all" radar.

Well children... In the real world it's not like that. Before 9/11 the few NORAD stations we had were looking of threats from outside, things like drug smuggling planes. The FAA was doing the job of tracking the 4000 of so aircraft over various zones in the US. If an aircraft goes off course it's the FAA ATC who has to decide if it's a mechanical problem, miscommunication from another ATC. If it is a hijacking then the ATC calls NORAD, and NORAD has the task of finding a plane in a sea of other aircraft that may or may not the a hijacking. In hindsight a simple job. 20/20
 
Homeland Insurgency said:
So NORAD is in the clear because of all the rampant incompetence on 9/11?

Perfect.
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No, there was no "rampant incompetence". NORAD is in the clear because the systems they were working under were never designed to confront a 9/11 senario, and so failed.

Before 9/11 it was believed that hijackers would demand a plane land and then deal, none had ever crashed the plane they had into a building. That was the way the FAA regulations were set up and had been set up for decades. In a hijack situation NORAD has zero authority. The only way they can get involved is through a request by the FAA. That request is then required to have approval by the SoD before they even launch, and if they do launch they are only to locate and tail the plane, the law expressly forbids the use of any ANG or AF craft to be used as a weapons platform against a hijacked aircraft. Only the PotUS can over rule that. Under these systerms the FAA still hadn't offically requested help from NORAD even after 10:10am when the PotUS gave the order to shoot down any plane that was considered a threat.

That meant that NORAD's information and requests for asistance came from people short cutting their chain of command and getting in touch with NORAD directly, mostly the guy who posts here under the name CheapShot but also his counterpart in New York. The reason that they thought of getting directly in touch with NORAD was that Boston and New York often deal with NORAD and they knew people there to contact. Indianapolis doesn't deal with NORAD and so never contacted them, even after realising that Flight AA77 may not have crashed.

NORAD and several of the Air Traffic Control Centers basically threw away the rule book and did it their own way after doing their part and realising the rule book wasn't going to work, that they had to move faster. The first jets in the air were launched without authority on the premise that "They could get permission afterwards." This was not "rampant incompetence" but a lot of folks working hard in a situation they had never faced, using systems never designed to do what they were trying to do. Instead of poking the borax at them and accusing them of things that simply aren't true, how about you do some real research, find out the truth of the matter and start to recognise that the guys in the FAA Control Centers and in NORAD where among the major heroes of 9/11 and that under the circumstances and with the cards they were handed they did an amazing job.
 
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ULTIMA1 said:
I have read all the articles and it did not take over an hour for the F-16 (that was close by) to intercept his plane.
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I have $5,000 that says it took over an hour from the loss of contact until the first F-16 intercepted Stewart's Plane, care to match that?
 
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