No thanks for doctors

[skeptifem]

people thank the crap out of their doctors AND god for the most part. thats been my experience anyway.

 

[l0rca]

This sort of reminds me of Dennett's speech about this, where he goes at length to fully acknowledge the the work and intelligence of everyone who played a part, even indirect, in his recovery.

 

[Liquid_Grace]

I just need to vent about something that really made me angry...

I was watching the Espy awards the other night on ESPN. A lady by the name of Kay Yow received the inaugural Jimmy V ESPY Award for Perseverance. She has had cancer 3 times and this last year she coached the North Carolina State Women's basketball team while battling stage 4 cancer. So that is the background of the story.
Anyway, she is giving her speech and not once did she thank the doctors, nurses, and other health care professionals that helped her through the cancer treatments. She thanked god. The same god that had given her cancer 3 times in her life. It really made me angry. I thought about how all the people that treated her must feel that she doesn't even thank them. How does god get a free pass?

Thanks for letting me vent.

I was link surfing today and accidentally ended up on Tammy Faye Baker Messner's website. She's still on about god who will save her from the cancer.

Guess god doesn't like her that much - and nary a word of praise for her doctors there, either.

Sad.

Cheers,
Grace

 

[Loss Leader]

I have heard mostly the version: "We don't heal, we simply assist nature (or God) to get the healing process going."

They know that they can do little beyond the natural healing resources found in the body. Where these are missing or malfunctioning, the doctors can do next to nothing.

So how did the surgeon implanting a new pulmonary valve into my heart "assist nature (or God) to get the healing process going"?

Also, how does my implantable defibrilator which shocks my heart with electricity when it mlafunctions ""assist nature (or God) to get the healing process going"?

And exactly what is it about the four stents holding the blood vessels around my heart open that assists "nature (or God) to get the healing process going"?

Then please explain to me how the shunt that drains excess CSF from my son's brain assists "nature (or God) to get the healing process going"?

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

I was link surfing today and accidentally ended up on Tammy Faye Baker Messner's website. She's still on about god who will save her from the cancer.

Grave dancing isn't very graceful. Even less so when she's in the process of dying rather than already cold.

Loss Leader, exactly. New age woo or religious woo, it's all well and good if the patient or family members wants to think unevidenced and often capricious factors were involved, but I hope to hell my doctor actually understands medicine and uses it in my, my loved ones or anyones treatment rather than suggesting they are just a tool or facilitator.

When it comes to a tumor, I have the same response to the woos and the doctors - Cut that s*** out.

 

[Freethinker]

However, whenever a couple who goes through infertility treatments, particularly when they need to have a micro-syringe physically inject the sperm into the ovum in order to fertilize an egg, credits God and "miracles" when the woman actually conceives, there is no shortage of eye-rolling in the medical community.

Following the same logic that the religious use, it would seem to me that using artificial fertility aids when a woman was unable to conceive would be among the greatest of sins. God made you unable to conceive and you are intentionally thwarting his will.

 

[Freethinker]

Ummm, no. God doesn't give cancer, our bodies own cells give us cancer. I agree that crediting God for cures is rediculous, but anyone familiar with Christian theology knows that's not how it "works."

Straw man's are bad.

I don't quite understand your argument. Certainly our own cells cause cancer, but we are talking about the religious who credit god for the cure. It would be (and is) illogical to credit/blame an omniscient and omnipotent god for one without crediting/blaming him for the other.

 

[Beerina]

Because "God works in mysterious ways." He apparently enjoyed giving her cancer and then curing it so much, that he did it three times. He's such a kidder.

God's an imp. He likes to poke you in the ass with a needle, then watch you squirm. Or lets Satan do it, which might as well be the same thing.

I assume all 90 billion plus humans and counting who've ever lived will all sit around a giant campfire and have a good laugh reviewing everybody's life someday.

"Hehe, there goes Korg from 70,000 BC, as he trips and falls upside down into a crevase, cracking his skull, breaking his arm, and wedging himself in. He'll die slowly over the next 11 days from dehydration, after rats eat his legs up to mid-thigh."

HAW HAW HAW! Such a funny guy.

 

[bjb]

So how did the surgeon implanting a new pulmonary valve into my heart "assist nature (or God) to get the healing process going"?

Also, how does my implantable defibrilator which shocks my heart with electricity when it mlafunctions ""assist nature (or God) to get the healing process going"?

And exactly what is it about the four stents holding the blood vessels around my heart open that assists "nature (or God) to get the healing process going"?

Then please explain to me how the shunt that drains excess CSF from my son's brain assists "nature (or God) to get the healing process going"?

Don't you get it? God is the one who came up with all of these ideas. He just works through doctors to make it happen. For example, here's an actual photograph of the process in action:

http://members.aol.com/JesusImages/ImagesJun06/surgeon.jpg

There's more of such evidence here on this site:

http://members.aol.com/JesusImages/

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

They know that they can do little beyond the natural healing resources found in the body. Where these are missing or malfunctioning, the doctors can do next to nothing.

I swear we were talking about fertility treatments administered by doctors, and, at the same time, noting that the body's healing resources weren't doing crap-all.

~~ Paul

 

[SezMe]

http://members.aol.com/JesusImages/ImagesJun06/surgeon.jpg

Yep, that's god all right. He doesn't have to wear a surgical mask.

 

[ponderingturtle]

While I have to say that this is a good thing because most docs have more dignity.

However, whenever a couple who goes through infertility treatments, particularly when they need to have a micro-syringe physically inject the sperm into the ovum in order to fertilize an egg, credits God and "miracles" when the woman actually conceives, there is no shortage of eye-rolling in the medical community.

Shouldn't the medical comunity be happy with future clients who will likely need infertility treatments? They are creating their own market.

 

[Katana]

Shouldn't the medical comunity be happy with future clients who will likely need infertility treatments? They are creating their own market.

I'm not sure how they're creating their own market.

Regardless, it is infertility docs who benefit from the fact that there are patients with fertility problems not the medical community at large.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I'm not sure how they're creating their own market.

Regardless, it is infertility docs who benefit from the fact that there are patients with fertility problems not the medical community at large.

I just remember hearing about fertility doctors having a high degree of confidence that many of the children born through fertility treatments would need such treatments.

And as it was specificaly about giving god credit over the fertility doctor, why should the fertility doctors mind as they have created another generation of clients?

 

[Katana]

I just remember hearing about fertility doctors having a high degree of confidence that many of the children born through fertility treatments would need such treatments.

And as it was specificaly about giving god credit over the fertility doctor, why should the fertility doctors mind as they have created another generation of clients?

Ah. I see where you're going.

It would obviously depend on the nature of the infertility. In situations where the fallopian tubes are blocked because of scarring, either due to PID or surgery, or the woman's ovarian function is diminishing simply due to age, I wouldn't think that a propensity for infertility would be passed along.

However, roughly 10-20% of severe male factor infertility appears to be related to missing a portion of the Y-chromosome. Obviously, this could be passed on to male offspring.

Certainly, many couples are ultimately diagnosed with what is called "unexplained infertility" (basically no one can figure out why they haven't conceived), which may result from characteristics that could be passed on. There are also various uterine/ovarian abnormalities that are known to or are very likely to have a genetic basis.

In other words, I think that you have a point.