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Near-death experiences!

PetriFB

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Jari Iivanainen's article about NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES AND DAMNATION

http://koti.phnet.fi/elohim/Border_of_death_experiences


Most people are probably curious of what is after death, and beyond the border of death. This many be a reason why they seek knowledge from spiritism-sessions or books that ponder this issue. Many have also had personal close-to-death experiences – i.e. experiences when their heart may have stopped in the hospital or in connection with an accident and when they may have seen themselves as if from the outside; they may have seen the operations done to them or the entire operation hall. Some may have also seen in connection with their experiences, a light being that seems to be full of "love and compassion".

The greatest conversation concerning this topic is indeed generally connected with the question, that are all the death-bordering experiences positive and will everyone end up fine beyond the border in spite of the way they have lived on earth? Many researchers want to believe this but is it true? We are going to look at this matter in the following lines. Several observations and examples seem to indicate that not everyone will necessarily end up well.
 
No objective research has ever shown that "near death experiences" are anything other than the normal reaction of the brain to oxygen deprivation. Most combat pilots experience the same sensations when they briefly black out during high G testing for their medical evaluations. They even report the same tunnel effect and feelings of great euphoria. Perhaps this shows that the act of dying may be rather pleasant in many cases, but it still tells us nothing about any experience beyond death. The fact remains that people near death were never actually dead. Someones heart stopping briefly while under medical care is not the same as having his/her brain be well and truly dead.

Steven
 
So that white light is Satan eh? Is that because it doesn't go on a rant and make people feel bad about themselves?

I'm also curious about the tent. Is that where the author lives?

Steven
 
Sure, I'm curious. But I can wait a bit longer, thank you very much. Not much use in speculating about what will happen, especially because we can never know until after it has happened.

And what's the use knowing, anyway? Who will you tell about it? This is one experience of which you can't live to tell the tale...
 
I almost died once. It was just like falling into a very deep sleep. But obviously I received the right medical attention before it was too late. Maybe I'd have a stupid story involving lights and harp music if they had waited any longer. But it probably wouldn't have been worth the effort.
 
The Bible tells me that, because I don't believe in Jesus, instead of just dying, I will be resurrected and thrown into Hell for agony for all eternity. Death isn't even death anymore, I guess. :(

Will the religious feel good as otherwise relatively decent folk are heaved into hell along with murderers and child abusers?
 
Foster Zygote said:
No objective research has ever shown that "near death experiences" are anything other than the normal reaction of the brain to oxygen deprivation. Most combat pilots experience the same sensations when they briefly black out during high G testing for their medical evaluations. They even report the same tunnel effect and feelings of great euphoria. Perhaps this shows that the act of dying may be rather pleasant in many cases, but it still tells us nothing about any experience beyond death. The fact remains that people near death were never actually dead. Someones heart stopping briefly while under medical care is not the same as having his/her brain be well and truly dead.

Steven
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Tunnels and lights do not adequately describe most NDEs. Although they may start with that, a few in particular are much more elaborate and descriptive, involving seeing whole cities and beings. Some people are actually dead for over 20 minutes. Thats not near to death, that is dead.
 
Look up Dannion Brinkley at wikipedia. Or read his book.

I cant post links yet or I would give you the direct URL. It was actually 28 minutes
 
Johnny C. said:
Some people are actually dead for over 20 minutes. .
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I seriously doubt it! Someone may be given CPR for twenty or more minutes but that does not mean they've been well and truly dead for that amount of time. And many people who confuse their experiences with sleep paralysis for alien abduction have constructed highly elaborate scenarios that they believe to be true. I myself have experienced many strange and wondrous places while in a dream state but I recognize that the source of these images is internal. Humans in a state of medical distress can certainly still experience these sorts of brain phenomena while in a state of unconsciousness. In fact, I've noticed that I often tend to dream more vividly while under stress. When we have a natural explanation for an event why must some insist on defining a supernatural one? (No need to answer, I have many ideas as to why.)

Steven
 
Read my post above. You can call up his ex-wife if you want. She left because she thought he was crazy, but even she knows he was dead for 28 minutes.
 
Johnny C. said:
Look up Dannion Brinkley at wikipedia. Or read his book.

I cant post links yet or I would give you the direct URL. It was actually 28 minutes
Click to expand...

Now I seriously seriously doubt it! Dannion Brinkley is one of the wooiest of the woos. He offers yet another extraordinary, unverifiable account from which he has profited handsomely.

Steven
 
Johnny C. said:
Read my post above. You can call up his ex-wife if you want. She left because she thought he was crazy, but even she knows he was dead for 28 minutes.
Click to expand...

Please specifically define "dead". Do medical records exist to show that his brain was devoid of any life activity for twenty eight minutes?

Steven
 
Foster Zygote said:
Do medical records exist to show that his brain was devoid of any life activity for twenty eight minutes?

Steven
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Thats what I asked you. You seemed to be confident that it was a false claim. I didnt think you would make decisions on the factuality without researching them...
 
Johnny C. said:
Thats what I asked you. You seemed to be confident that it was a false claim. I didnt think you would make decisions on the factuality without researching them...
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Gee, I'm sorry I couldn't find the medical records of this woo in my personal files in the last few minutes. I'll keep searching though. In the brief search I've done in the last few minutes though it seems to me that he only claims to have prophesied an event after the fact like so many other "psychics". But I'm afraid the burden of proof is on Brinkley (or you, his advocate) to prove his incredible claim and not on me or any other skeptic to disprove it. Do you really have no idea whether there is any objective evidence of his claims? If so, why are you convinced? I would like to see him apply for the JREF prize though. He could donate that $million to charity and silence one of the banes of the "psychic" community thus exposing the validity of his claims and striking a crushing blow to the clouding influence of skeptical inquiry.

Steven
 
I think it all really depends on your definition of "dead", there are several different definitions. According to wikipedia Brinkley was "clinically dead" for 28 minutes which means cessation of heartbeat and breathing. He was struck by lightning so although I may be wrong I doubt that there were any brain scanning devices available to measure his brain function. If he were measured to be brain dead for 28 minutes I would be more impressed.
 
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